|
11-01-2005, 11:51 AM | #21 |
Pandaspeed Racing
|
nah i was warned away from them full stop ...
__________________
Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2! |
11-01-2005, 08:09 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE QLD, Australia
Car: Turbo BG Astina
Posts: 792
|
Who by if you don't mind me asking? Everyone I've talked to said they are fine to use. Better than elongating the holes because that can cause more troubles with going out of align.
__________________
BG Astina + GTR conversion + Microtech ECU + FMIC + 3" pipes and Exhaust x 21psi boost = 12.168 to the power of 326whp |
11-01-2005, 08:20 PM | #23 |
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: melb.vic.au
Car: AZ-1, Astina Hardtop Turbo, BJ Protege, Beetle
Posts: 16,525
|
that's interesting
i tried to get some made up for the BA (by kmac) but they're a bunch of completely lazy buggers. oh well, if they don't want the business...
__________________
jdmparts.rupewrecht.com Sourcing your not-quite-overnight parts from Japan WRECHT--|--SLOWTEGE--|--BEETLE--|--SUBSTITUTE--|--AZ-1 |
11-01-2005, 11:03 PM | #24 |
Manpink Crusader
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Stafford, Brisbane
Car: 1990 GD mx6 F2T, and soon I might drive the batmoobile once again
Posts: 2,280
|
JIC coilovers have adjustable tops :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
|
11-01-2005, 11:51 PM | #25 |
Pandaspeed Racing
|
a heap of rally people ... they said they are fine to use ... but only for light road work ... once you get onto the bumpy roads, even worse when you have aftermarket suspension (stiff springs, swaybars etc) there is the possiblity of them loosening and all of a sudden you have completely opposite camber mid corner when you are fully commited ... as boosted bruce wanye said ... you are much better off (safety wise) saving your $$$ and buying a set of coilovers. i am by no means saying dont investigate them ... if you believe they are a goer then by all means buy em ... there are 1000's of people out there using them without troubles ... but murphys law ... you know the rest
__________________
Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2! |
11-01-2005, 11:55 PM | #26 |
Manpink Crusader
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Stafford, Brisbane
Car: 1990 GD mx6 F2T, and soon I might drive the batmoobile once again
Posts: 2,280
|
Mr Bruce is a bit of a slut and is using both though. He uses the bolts to get zero camber with the car lowered and sets the pillow balls for the desired angle. Never trust a Bat
|
12-01-2005, 04:20 AM | #27 |
GSL RallySport
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brendale QLD!!!
Car: Cross 6
Posts: 1,835
|
Nate's spot on the money :P
DON'T EVER USE CAMBER BOLTS :evil: Picture this: Turn 1, Queensland Raceway, dialed in neg 3 degrees.. limit of adhesion... and all of a sudden BANG... positive 3 degrees camber... and your farked... :P Its happened three times that i know of at QR, twice the car ended up on its roof... now picture your in the real world.. power poles.. houses, oncoming traffic... not for me :wink: Either A: Buy adjustable strut tops from either DMS, or KMac, and get castor adjusment aswell (far more important than camber anyway)... or B: Yes, elongate the top hole in your strut, lean the hub inward, tack weld a washer in place... remove hub.. and weld that bitch in... that's wot i've got, we dailed in 1.5 degrees on both sides... and beleive me.. if it were to fail, it would have failed ALONG time ago :P sorry.. but the thought of trusting my life to a bolt that must remain at full tension really doesn't appeal to me... if your doing it to give clearance on a lowered car.. fair enough.. your probably into that kinda thing anyway (and that's fine)... but if you intend to use your car.. STAY away... for those who now intend to bag me out, and try and tell me i know nothing... go for it.. i've said my bit.. its up to you....
__________________
- GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers - |
12-01-2005, 09:18 AM | #28 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE QLD, Australia
Car: Turbo BG Astina
Posts: 792
|
Quote:
So yeah, me picturing myself at QR at turn 1 is not going to happen. Nate, this is also my reasoning with rally. Of course rally drivers are not going to recommend them because again, they are a race situation and the suspention is under more stress again to that compared to track because of the constant uneven surface. Quote:
Maybe the DMS ones would be worth looking into...but as far as I'm concerned, it just seems a BIG waste of money to buy a part that is designed to be fully adjustable for something that's basically going to be a "set and forget". IMO, castor is more important at high speed, again, not street driven. The BG allows for some caster adjustment, so this isn't needed. Quote:
__________________
BG Astina + GTR conversion + Microtech ECU + FMIC + 3" pipes and Exhaust x 21psi boost = 12.168 to the power of 326whp |
|||
12-01-2005, 10:13 AM | #29 | |
Pandaspeed Racing
|
Quote:
__________________
Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2! |
|
12-01-2005, 11:19 PM | #30 | |||||
GSL RallySport
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brendale QLD!!!
Car: Cross 6
Posts: 1,835
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
- GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers - |
|||||
13-01-2005, 12:16 AM | #31 |
living in the past man
|
has anyone looked at the toe bolts on most cars???
same type of bolts as these "evil" camber bolts.... the toe bolts are going to move on the same lateral movement BB what was the cause of these cars flipping on their roofs??? i'm quite interested to know what the underlying reason was - did the bolts shear? did the nuts come loose? were they properly torqued and loctited like all suspension comes from the factory?
__________________
1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost... |
13-01-2005, 01:14 AM | #32 | ||
GSL RallySport
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brendale QLD!!!
Car: Cross 6
Posts: 1,835
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
- GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers - |
||
13-01-2005, 07:49 AM | #33 |
living in the past man
|
you do know what a camber bolt looks like?? its a small off centre bolt .... by turning the bolt around, you can allow the bolt to shuffle its gap side hence being able to change the setting - its kinda like looking at a sun and moon gear
on cars such as the BJ series the toe in and out, is adjustable via the cam bolt on the control arm... hmm i should say lateral link - this is where the main bearing of lateral movement is taken when cam bolts are used they should be properly toqued as well as set in place with loctite, as mazda does when they ship vehicles from the factory, as does the majority of suspension and motor mechanics alike loctite heavily retards the loosening of bolts caused by vibration of the parts by expanding slightly within joints.... as its anerobic it never actally sets properly outside of the joint camber bolts are designed to take the stresses across the bolt, but are ineffective if not properly installed (like anything - from speakers to suspension, to a bloody letter box!!!) OEM strut bolts arn't anything fantastic... and why? coz they don't have to be. they are designed to tie the hub assembly to the stut housing and take stresses slightly over that of spirirted road driving... trailing arms, control links, lateral links are whats in place to keep a strong grip on the hub, things such as sway bars are optional and not nescessary, but they help as do things such as roll cages all in all in competiion i wouldn't use them - but for road use (and possibly occasional track use) they are goign to be fine really
__________________
1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost... |
13-01-2005, 10:38 AM | #34 | |
Pandaspeed Racing
|
Quote:
... fair call you know a bit but you are still learning yourself... and dont have the tarmac knowledge of some people onthe site... dont go telling other people they are idiots because of there opinions greg you have to remember that its a very very very tight squeeze under the front gaurds of an astina ... finding wheels with the correct offset is a problem ... finding wheels you like with the correct offset is a bigger problem again ... and you have to also remember that this car (last time i checked ... excuse me if i am wrong) is running 18's ... thats a fair chunk of wheel wrapped up in a small amount of rubber... i would be thinking those tires are 215?? ... thats about the biggest you can go on the car from memory ... that might mean he can only dial in 1 degree of camber without banging on something ... what robbie is trying to say is that ... if he goes and welds up the 1 degree of camber ... then decides on day to go to the track, with stock 195 rims on, and wants 2.5 degrees of camber ... its no go... it might be all well to go and do it on a rally car but its just not an option on a road car ...
__________________
Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2! |
|
13-01-2005, 08:34 PM | #35 | |
GSL RallySport
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Brendale QLD!!!
Car: Cross 6
Posts: 1,835
|
Quote:
and i know what toe bolts are... the rade's got them... i've already had to replace both due to them snapping whilst trying to undo them :evil: the difference with these is that they take no lateral load as the rear lateral link is simply a pivot arm for the load bearing foward one... even when they do take load (like sliding sideways into a boulder at 50k's ops: ) because of the slot they sit in they'll tend to bend lateral links first... as i found out ops: Nate, i'm not speaking from my experiences with camber bolts, i'm speaking from the advice of ppl that know ALOT more than me! For the road, and to correct clearances, got for it.. just be aware that they're not failsafe... that's all i'm saying :wink: and stop refering to rally as backyard, weld up, fire and forget... i only slotted and welded cause i was cheap and couldn't afford strut tops... there's twice the computing power in a WRC car than there is in F1 :twisted: and do you think if you fogged a ferrari or jaguar through a forest at warp speed it'd stay in one piece.. not a chance :P
__________________
- GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 -
Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers - |
|
13-01-2005, 09:44 PM | #36 |
コスモ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Location: Vic
Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD
Posts: 7,888
|
I havn't changed my opinion from my post on page one.
Camber pins are cheap and if you use them as a tool rather than a crutch they are worth their weight in gold in a road/race car. Camber and caster should be tuned to the drivers driving style and these pins can allow you to set the camber for you. Once you know where this is you can make more perminant changes. A friend did this before having his strut tops bent to set it. Someone else I knew changed the lower arms on his P510 to instal rose joints for camber adjustment and tapped LJ Torana radius arms for caster adjustment on 260Z struts. I would slot the strut tops up to 3mm to make the adjustment as your strut brace would hide this from view. So many ways to make these changes but some are serious changes and need people skilled in engineering to help you.
__________________
My 'stina Hatch |
13-01-2005, 10:37 PM | #37 | |
AstinaGT Regular
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Glenbrook NSW
Car: wrx
Posts: 484
|
Quote:
you cant compare the apples to the oranges, even if they are both types of racing I was always lead to beleive, and i am still under this impression, that camber bolts are to change the amount of camber on a particular wheel, which cannot be dialed out with the factory unit. And the only reason for needing the change in the first place was to get rid of the bad, mass produced factory margins-of-error. you put them on if you need it, not to make a "performance" gain, and especially not because it will help when it is being used constantly on the race track.
__________________
#25 most posts! Mod list: painted black calipers, 14' alloys, dash mat! |
|
13-01-2005, 11:57 PM | #38 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE QLD, Australia
Car: Turbo BG Astina
Posts: 792
|
Bourne Boy, it seems, as Nate said, you are still learning, like me. In fact, because you tried to make me look like a complete idiot, you inspired me to finally put in some real effort into finding out the definitions and how of the fundamentals of wheel alignment effect handling, steering and tyre wear.
In reference to what you said back to me on the last post on page 2, I am quite happy to say that my post you tried to tear apart, most of the things you said, are incorrect and have nothing to do with what I'm trying to achieve. It now also seems that you have changed your stance a bit, why is this? Have you done a bit more research yourself? I said that I wouldn't use them for track use, because I am aware of such a thing as CONSTANT REPETITIVE STRESS. How many times a day do you have to emergency brake/swerve? How many times a day do you hard brake and hard corner? Now refer it to a race track as you like to, lets just say a 5 lap race on a track with 9 corners. That's 45 times you are going to be stressing ALL components of your suspention and braking system. Now i don't know how you drive your road car, but I'm lucky to get myself into a situation where I'm stressing my car that much in 2 months. http://autorepair.about.com/gi/dynam...Falignment.htm That url above is probably one of the best, simplest explainations of all aspects. I suggest you read before next time you tell someone that caster has got to do with "maintaining full contact patch". While your researching, research the fact that I didn't spend big money on stupid rims and tyres....they were already on the car. The chasis setup is the way I bought it. Sorry to all the other guys to have to do that, but I hope that most of you do read that link if your not sure about steering fundamentals. It sure has cleared a few things up for me. All I need now is a bit more practical experience to setup my car so that I can achive an excellent everyday handling package. As you can see i don't like being made to look like a fool. If I'm wrong, I don't mind someone shooting me down on forums, provided what they say is correct and they can show me how i am wrong. I take that not as an insult but a method of learning. I will not stand being made to look like a fool when what most of the stuff I'm trying to get across is on a correct line of thinking, and someone shuts me down with incorrect information.
__________________
BG Astina + GTR conversion + Microtech ECU + FMIC + 3" pipes and Exhaust x 21psi boost = 12.168 to the power of 326whp |
14-01-2005, 12:16 AM | #39 |
living in the past man
|
Rob, stop reading my mind - it feels like your invading my privacy!!
__________________
1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost... |
14-01-2005, 02:47 PM | #40 | |
Pandaspeed Racing
|
hehe ... james you got a stalker
Quote:
... but saying that ... these things are designed and approved for road use ... and companies arnt be going to selling a product were they are to settle a $10000 law suit on every second car they fit the product to ... i wont use them because of the use of my car ... but thats just my opinion... if you want to do it as a day to day road car option ... as you have said ... then go for it ... Good Luck
__________________
Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2! |
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
TWM short shifter Group buyers installed....Post your thoughts on it here =D | -BraXta- | Performance & General Maintenance | 21 | 25-06-2005 09:39 PM |
Christmas Thoughts | KittyKatSmack | General Automotive Talk | 12 | 26-12-2004 01:40 PM |
NSW? thoughts on a joint cruise | platypus | NSW | 16 | 08-09-2004 09:27 PM |
Planned BA Upgrade path - your thoughts? | deruss | Performance & General Maintenance | 9 | 01-09-2004 07:46 PM |