I'm a potential BA Hatch 1.8L 5spd Owner..

[project.r.racing]

PM sent, also check For Sale section plz

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by AstinaBoiV6

stiffer suspension like coilovers

WTF?!?!?!

Righteo, i'm definately missing something here... stick to stuff you know, don't pretend to know what you don't...

[Cosmo Dude]

Originally Posted by Astro Boy

WTF?!?!?!

Righteo, i'm definately missing something here... stick to stuff you know, don't pretend to know what you don't...

For once I'm in agreement.
Coilovers have been given too much of a rap recently. Planning and research will beat D2s every time.

[Astro Boy]

Don't get me wrong, coilovers have their advantages (albiet VERY little for the street)I'd just love to see him explain how coilovers with say, 220lbs springs, and valved accordingly, are going to be harder than stock KYB's running 330lbs springs...

I'm sure it works on the playstation, that is, drop it on its nuts, give it go kart suspension and bounce off the barriers... Go try that in the real world...

Too many peeople (ESPECIALLY THOSE DEALING WITH FWDs!!!) confuse cornering flatter with cornering faster... SORRY the later does not come as a result of the first... it comes as a result of increases grip, which 99% of the time doesn't come from stiffer springs, infact quite the opposite... yes, lowered right height, does yield adavantages with corner speed, but once again, not at the sacrifice of suspension travel, and as a result grip...

This isn't V8 supertaxi's or go karts where picking up the inside front and leaning on the outside is the hip thing to do... EVERY second either of your front wheels are off the ground you lose foward drive, cornering grip, and as a result of both of those, momentum which is what keeps underpowered FWD POS on song...

Things which reduce cornering in FWDs are stiff springs, stiff front sway bars, excessive camber...

But at the end of the day, each to their own, and if stiff springs and bouncing off into the scenery is your thing, go for it...

[AstinaBoiV6]

Originally Posted by Astro Boy

Don't get me wrong, coilovers have their advantages (albiet VERY little for the street)I'd just love to see him explain how coilovers with say, 220lbs springs, and valved accordingly, are going to be harder than stock KYB's running 330lbs springs...

I'm sure it works on the playstation, that is, drop it on its nuts, give it go kart suspension and bounce off the barriers... Go try that in the real world...

Too many peeople (ESPECIALLY THOSE DEALING WITH FWDs!!!) confuse cornering flatter with cornering faster... SORRY the later does not come as a result of the first... it comes as a result of increases grip, which 99% of the time doesn't come from stiffer springs, infact quite the opposite... yes, lowered right height, does yield adavantages with corner speed, but once again, not at the sacrifice of suspension travel, and as a result grip...

This isn't V8 supertaxi's or go karts where picking up the inside front and leaning on the outside is the hip thing to do... EVERY second either of your front wheels are off the ground you lose foward drive, cornering grip, and as a result of both of those, momentum which is what keeps underpowered FWD POS on song...

Things which reduce cornering in FWDs are stiff springs, stiff front sway bars, excessive camber...

But at the end of the day, each to their own, and if stiff springs and bouncing off into the scenery is your thing, go for it...

cheers for the info like i said b4 wasnt having a go just wanted to know why you would choose one thing over another. seeing ur response i can see what you are trying to say and can make some logic. also having driven cars RWD with just pedders springs and then coilovers i can also see the differance in cornering and these are not just rice cars this also included a mercedes 180 and a BMW m3. its just a matter of preferance but when driving those it felt very grippy and preffered over jsut the stiff springs. I guess its a matter of preferance at the end.

Coming back on topic i said that if he was planing a turbo conversion he mite want to upgrade from the stock suspension of the BA wich in my opinion (having owned a BA for over a year) is quite poor but alot better than most cars out there. Even just the springs on KYB shocks (dosnt the v6 hardtop come with dual barrel KYB stock?) will provide the extra grip and reduced roll in corners when dealing with a turbo. I sure wouldnt want to change down to secont have boost kick in and then realise that oo no my car is sliding as i have had a friend in a 300ZX do and that wasnt speeding jsut a bad call on his behalf.

[Rupewrecht]

blah blah blah coilover vs springs blah blah blah same **** different application


BA has Tokico shocks.

[bourbon]

Originally Posted by Astro Boy

Things which reduce cornering in FWDs are stiff springs, stiff front sway bars, excessive camber...

But at the end of the day, each to their own, and if stiff springs and bouncing off into the scenery is your thing, go for it...

That was exactly what i was thinkin, as stiffer suspension means wheel will come up with the car. YAY i was right haha

[bourbon]

stiffer suspension means, more chance of gettin wheels off the ground, and were talkin FWD in this cas, means keep front wheels on the ground. the car will lean no matter what suspension is in the car (unless if your got a F1 or indy car or somethin crazy nuty like that). Faster you go in the corner more chance of wheels coming off the ground. Stickaboi, learn some physics please, its the pendulum effect, have a straight up down object with a flat bottom, pull the top to 1 side, and the bottom of the opposite side will come off the ground, thats example of stiff suspension. now do it with a slinky, willbe your bouncy suspension, and what does it do, the base of the slinky stays on the ground!

Originally Posted by AstinaBoiV6

cheers for the info like i said b4 wasnt having a go just wanted to know why you would choose one thing over another. seeing ur response i can see what you are trying to say and can make some logic. also having driven cars RWD with just pedders springs and then coilovers i can also see the differance in cornering and these are not just rice cars this also included a mercedes 180 and a BMW m3. its just a matter of preferance but when driving those it felt very grippy and preffered over jsut the stiff springs. I guess its a matter of preferance at the end.

Coming back on topic i said that if he was planing a turbo conversion he mite want to upgrade from the stock suspension of the BA wich in my opinion (having owned a BA for over a year) is quite poor but alot better than most cars out there. Even just the springs on KYB shocks (dosnt the v6 hardtop come with dual barrel KYB stock?) will provide the extra grip and reduced roll in corners when dealing with a turbo. I sure wouldnt want to change down to secont have boost kick in and then realise that oo no my car is sliding as i have had a friend in a 300ZX do and that wasnt speeding jsut a bad call on his behalf.

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by bourbon

stiffer suspension means, more chance of gettin wheels off the ground, and were talkin FWD in this cas, means keep front wheels on the ground.

Exactly! 99.9% of FWD road cars either don't have an LSD, or don't have one strong enough to supress a lifted inside wheel... Yes, in a race car, with a tight LSD, you can set it up different , to pick the inside up, and get away with it, even in a FWD 80% of cornering grip comes from the outside wheel... but the difference is the power is still split 50/50, until you lift a wheel, then its split 100% to the side with NO traction...

Too many people don't understand the different between setting up a race car, and setting up a ROAD car to drive on the road...

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by bourbon

stiffer suspension means, more chance of gettin wheels off the ground

Moreso sway bars, but yep, you're right...

Remember too that sway bars effectively limit your independent wheel travel, and effectively stiffen the spring rate of the loaded wheel because the unloaded side is pushing it down...

[AstinaBoiV6]

ahh u see i forgot that coilovers will prevent the wheel itself on the inside from sticking to the road where as spirngs will alow the wheel to stay on the ground. eg i was at the workshop just before changing the oil on R33 with coilovers and whe wheels didnt drop when lifting the car up. again when the 33 had normal shockys the wheels dooped down alot from the arch when on hoist.

kk i see the diff now. still id preffer coilovers

[chicaboo]

Fark, so informative, but it's still threadjacking.

[Astro Boy]

I'm still trying to figuire out WTF he's on about....

I think he should just stop talking now... He prefers coilovers because of how a car goes up an a hoist... I wish i had that much money to waste!

[Rupewrecht]

Originally Posted by AstinaBoiV6

ahh u see i forgot that coilovers will prevent the wheel itself on the inside from sticking to the road where as spirngs will alow the wheel to stay on the ground. eg i was at the workshop just before changing the oil on R33 with coilovers and whe wheels didnt drop when lifting the car up. again when the 33 had normal shockys the wheels dooped down alot from the arch when on hoist.

kk i see the diff now. still id preffer coilovers

No, thats only because the of springs that were too short.

the only difference between how coilovers function and how a set of matched shocks and springs (ones that keep the springs captive when the car is jacked up, and have a complementary damping rate to the springs - unlike lower springs and stock shocks) is that with coilovers you can adjust the height. That's all.

[zero1]

haha im pretty sure thats more than i ever wanted to know about fwd suspension setups..

ill prolly jus drop it on some king springs and chuck some decent mags on,
and if i can hook up a cheap sway bar from a half cut or something, bolt that up too..

im no rally driver, and iv got my rwd gemini to drift in if i wanna go fast around corners.. lol, but i do appreciate the interest iv sparked

engine/performance wise, i think ill keep the BP in, repair all the things wrong with it, maybe just get a K&N panel filter, and 2.25/2.5 exhaust system and maybe extractors if i can hunt some down..

cosmetically, fix the panel damage, get a respray and give it some tlc and i think she'll turn out to be quite a tidy little ride

[project.r.racing]

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht

No, thats only because the of springs that were too short.

it's the damper stroke, not the spring.

eg - adjustable damper coilover stiffen the damper allowing less movement but increase ride height.

so when on hoist, the lenght of damper stroke controls bound movement.

ryan

[Rupewrecht]

Yes and no. I was talking about standard shocks and aftermarket springs (which i'd bet was the case). Yes the damper stroke will be too long, but thats because the springs aren't suitable because they they're 2/3 the height of the original springs.

[project.r.racing]

i thought the convo was about coilover fitted cars on hoists, oops sorry.
what you are saying also is correct about standard setups.

[Rupewrecht]

I'm just trying to point out that it had nothing to with them being coilovers - it was just that the shocks damping rate wasn't matched to the spring height, and that's why they dropped further and weren't captive.

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht

I'm just trying to point out that it had nothing to with them being coilovers

i too was going to make that point, but got sick of wasting my breath!