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Old 25-04-2009, 10:26 PM   #1
RickBrah
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Suspension Help

Currently only got 15inch rims and i am wanting to lower the car.

im new to lowering so dont know alot about it.

i dont want it to be too low but still low enough to make the car look good. i have a 1998 BA Hatchback.

what price would i be looking at? and what are some good brands for springs?

im also located in sydney so can anyone recommend a good place to get it done

thanks
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Old 25-04-2009, 10:45 PM   #2
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depends on your budget?

Eibach springs & KYB shocks would be an ok combo, or if you want low and dont care how bumpy the ride is, king springs...
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Old 25-04-2009, 11:37 PM   #3
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Astroboy can help you out with getting goods

It all comes down to budget and what you want out of the combo
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Old 26-04-2009, 01:32 AM   #4
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You need to keep in mind that our BA Hatchbacks are really high cars especially emphasized by the big wheel arches. If you want to look good in my opinion you need to go at least 40mm lower. I've got Eibach Pro Kits and they only lower your car by 30mm or so and I dont think its low enough to look good. But Eibachs are more for handling so really depends what you're after.

If you want to go low to look good you'd have to consider Super Low King Springs or Whiteline Flatouts. These lower approximately 45-60mm apparently. Theres probably other springs that lower this amount too but these are the only ones I know of. I had a look at the Whiteline site lately and it looks like they dont have the Whiteline Flatouts for the 1.8litre anymore.

Another option to lower is to go with coilovers. That way you can lower or heighten the car to pretty much any height you want, but get ready for a rough ride as these are meant more for track driving/handling.

Approximate prices for a set
- King springs or Whiteline springs: 250-350
- Eibach springs: 500-600 unless you manage to find a special on them. Ive seen them a couple of times go for less than 200
- Coilovers: depends on the brand but at least 1200 for D2 or G4 branded ones

Last edited by phly; 26-04-2009 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 26-04-2009, 05:38 AM   #5
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Approximate prices for a set
- King springs or Whiteline springs: 250-350
- Eibach springs: 500-600 unless you manage to find a special on them. Ive seen them a couple of times go for less than 200
- Coilovers: depends on the brand but at least 1200 for D2 or G4 branded ones
eibach = 500
d2 = 1400
g4 = 1600
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Old 26-04-2009, 09:35 AM   #6
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thanks for the help. yeh lowering it about 45mm sounds like the best option. ive only got the 15inch rims on at the moment, so im going to try to lower it soon then upgrade the rims some time in the near future.

my 15inch rims that are on the car now look quite nice, even with the 15inch will lowering the car 45mm still give it a good look?

Last edited by RickBrah; 26-04-2009 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 26-04-2009, 04:41 PM   #7
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take a pic of your car and post it up. will allow us to answer your question better.
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Old 26-04-2009, 04:56 PM   #8
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sorry about the quality, only used my phone. Based on these images what do you think my best option is?

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...kyfukk/CAR.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...042009-001.jpg
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Old 26-04-2009, 05:10 PM   #9
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do you want handling or looks or a balance between them?

if you want full slammed look and great handling go with coilovers. be aware that it'll be a stiff ride and you'll have issues getting up driveways/gutters and probably scrubbing if you get wider wheels later on. be prepared to dodge every pothole/bump

if you want the low low look get some king springs/whiteline flatout springs. you'll suffer with a harsh ride and scrubbing with wider wheels. new shocks to match the springs will help a lot with the ride quality.

if you want a lower look and good handling get eibach/mazdaspeed/RS*R springs. they'll drop the car about 45mm at the front. get some adjustible shocks and you'll have a lower, better handling car. this option also makes it still possible to get up gutters/driveways. downside is it doesnt have the "too damn low" look
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Old 28-04-2009, 04:25 PM   #10
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do you want handling or looks or a balance between them?

if you want full slammed look and great handling go with coilovers. be aware that it'll be a stiff ride and you'll have issues getting up driveways/gutters and probably scrubbing if you get wider wheels later on. be prepared to dodge every pothole/bump

if you want the low low look get some king springs/whiteline flatout springs. you'll suffer with a harsh ride and scrubbing with wider wheels. new shocks to match the springs will help a lot with the ride quality.

if you want a lower look and good handling get eibach/mazdaspeed/RS*R springs. they'll drop the car about 45mm at the front. get some adjustible shocks and you'll have a lower, better handling car. this option also makes it still possible to get up gutters/driveways. downside is it doesnt have the "too damn low" look
thanks that helped a heap.

id be going for looks more then handling i guess. king springs/whiteline sound good but the harsh ride is a bit of a downside. im going to research it more and ill probably end up going the kings/whiteline.

i posted some pics of my car up above, will king springs still look good with only 15inch rims?
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Old 28-04-2009, 04:35 PM   #11
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If you're going to put bigger rims on later does it really matter what the 15's look like? Also, if you haven't already you could look through the Reader's Ride section at other BAs to get an idea of what looks good.
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Old 28-04-2009, 04:47 PM   #12
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if you are choosing between kings and whiteline i would suggest white line as they are a little more of a race spring than kings, which means that if u ever want to do any track event or even take a corner a little faster, you prob wont bottom out as fast as you would with kings
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Old 28-04-2009, 07:03 PM   #13
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d

if you want full slammed look and great handling go with coilovers. be aware that it'll be a stiff ride and you'll have issues getting up driveways/gutters and probably scrubbing if you get wider wheels later on. be prepared to dodge every pothole/bump
You don't have to adjust them all the way down, you know - then they're no different to a similar spring/shock combo.
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Old 28-04-2009, 07:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70NYD View Post
if you are choosing between kings and whiteline i would suggest white line as they are a little more of a race spring than kings, which means that if u ever want to do any track event or even take a corner a little faster, you prob wont bottom out as fast as you would with kings
actually i'd take kings linear over whiteline progressives any day. match them with a decent shock and the kings are far more predictable for race use. pretty sure astro covered this as well somewhere.

whiteline progressives are a more street friendly spring then kings though

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You don't have to adjust them all the way down, you know - then they're no different to a similar spring/shock combo.
but if you're not gonna drop them low why get coilovers for a street car that wont see track use?
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Old 28-04-2009, 07:24 PM   #15
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but if you're not gonna drop them low why get coilovers for a street car that wont see track use?
Because they're a comparative price to a set of Eibachs and a decent set of shocks (like Konis).
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Old 28-04-2009, 07:35 PM   #16
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actually i'd take kings linear over whiteline progressives any day. match them with a decent shock and the kings are far more predictable for race use.
hmmm my super soft kings had linear fronts and progressive rears. worse springs i ever owned. cannot say they were predictable at all. one second you had grip, the next you didn't.

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Old 28-04-2009, 07:59 PM   #17
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but if you're not gonna drop them low why get coilovers for a street car that wont see track use?
because with springs your stuck with how its lowered, and you cant adjust, thats it its 50mm its 50mm, u get bodykit and its too low too bad. i just wind a few threads and im higher thats the ONLY reason i bought coilovers, oh and springs are changable easier, no precompression

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hmmm my super soft kings had linear fronts and progressive rears. worse springs i ever owned. cannot say they were predictable at all. no second you hade grip, the next you didn't.
thats what iv been told too ryan, kings were made for holdens with chromies that arent for any sort of performance, whereas whiteline as a company has some sort of performance history
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Old 29-04-2009, 11:08 AM   #18
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thats what iv been told too ryan, kings were made for holdens with chromies that arent for any sort of performance, whereas whiteline as a company has some sort of performance history
I couldn't disagree more...

Whiteline springs are made by Lovells... a company that's been bank rupt 3 times, versus Kings, who are the largest spring manufacturer in the southern hemisphere, and OEM spring supplier to two of the highest performance suspension companies on the planet, DMS and MCA Proflex.

Kings are far and away the better spring, and if the handling isn't what it should be, it's an inadequacy in your shocks to be able to control the spring properly...

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cannot say they were predictable at all.
Springs have absolutely no bearing on predictability what so ever. Springs (whether they are physically linear or progressive in their rate), have a constant rate of compression regardless of acceleration rate...

What that means, is that it doesn't matter how fast a spring is compressed, it's rate remains constants. Whether you compress a spring slowly or quickly, if you were to force rate that action, the force required would be the same. (Excluding initial inertia figures).

What isn't constant is the effective rate of shocks versus acceleration. The slower you compress a shock, the easier (lower force) is it. If you try to compress a shock really quickly, the force required is greatly increased.

If you want to dump a car on it's guts, and have ok ride, get Lovells/Whiteline. If you want a car that handles, and you're performance oriented, get Kings, and find a shock that's capable of doing it's job properly. Usually Bilstein is a good place to start...

Ok course if you want a $0.80 damper insert in a $300 strut body, but want to look cool at Macca's get G4/D2/K Sport...

Here's some classic quotes I've round recently on the above mentioned cheap Taiwanese crap:
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and it depends what u consider a good brand, u arent going to get a good quality item with height and damper adjustment for 1-1.5k new, simple.

u wanna spend f**k all, ur gonna get f**k all, just because the metal is all anodized and pretty doesnt make them good quality suspension.

also you do not need damper adjustability, and u will not get damper adjustability worth using for ur price range.

my experience is that u wont listen to a word i say, because it doesnt fit with what u ideally want in ur head, and ull go and buy some cheap suspension, it will be hard, it will go low, and ull think its the bee's knees, reccomend it to everyone u know, the vicious cycle of cheapy suspension will keep on turning, and you'll never be wise to the fact of how bad ur suspension really was because u never had something decent to compare it to, and we just pray u sell ur car soon enough that u dont have to deal with the inevitable failing/breaking of the suspension.
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as far as people who have just put cheap coilovers in and are "happy" with them, you give a starving kid from etheopia a big mac and they are gonna think its a great meal, doesnt mean it is.
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honestly, i think they are cheap suspension. tbh i dont see a lot of difference in cheap suspension, unless they have the horror stories of G4 and D2, then ur really just buying blind as none of them are backed by any credible sources, all u can go off is some bloke who just put in "coilies" into his car and thinks they are tops.

as far as those spring rates are concerned they are overkill unless ur car is a fully built race machine running slicks (but then u wouldnt be buying ISC's), or ur looking for a slippery as f**k car that will have no roll. my biggest concern with cheap suspension is they dont revalve their dampers for each spring rate, so the heavy rate will give u a harsh ride, but wont make the car as solid as ud expect due to the dampers being underdamped, leaving the springs undercontrolled.
Sums it all up pretty nicely...
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Last edited by Astro Boy; 29-04-2009 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 29-04-2009, 11:38 AM   #19
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Ok course if you want a $0.80 damper insert in a $300 strut body, but want to look cool at Macca's get G4/D2/K Sport...
lol u allways mention maccas when it comes to coilovers..

EDIT

i know my D2s arent the best ones out there but they are surving their intended purpose, which isnt track use. if i was to use the car on a track every w/e but its a road legal car i would have prob gone for something along the lines of tein with edfc so i allways know what my shocks are doing..

btw price doesnt = quality allways
i/friends/family have bought many things from a "good brand" manufacturer (mainly elec goods, cloths , furniture etc) that have fcuked up within 6 months after their warranty ran out, where as once they were replaced by a cheaper (crappier?) brand they are still working years later. i know that those might not have been the best parts of the production line within the batch, perhaps those ones were ONLY ones out of their respective batches that fcuked up but speaking strictly from past experiences price(brand names) doesnt mean quality
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Old 29-04-2009, 11:53 AM   #20
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lol, yeah I know it's a bad habit!

And yet mention quality performance coilovers like DMS, Proflex or Reigers at Macca's on a Thursday night, and people look at you funny and have no idea what you're talking about.

Irony is 90% of cars come with 'coilovers' standard, including the Astina...
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