Coilover suspension vs. Replacement suspension parts

[Astro Boy]

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht

That's what i had to do - as four years ago BA coilovers weren't as commonly available as they are today.

Yeah, but the only problem with homemade jobbies is that they don't come with fully sik *stickers* bro, which according to known rice fact account for 23.5% of all performance gains!

*Note: The Lada only made it to the finish of the shakedown rally because the layered Ausmicro sticker gave the bonnet 15.7% stronger torsion stiffness, so i know this stuff for a fact!

[ Ok.. i really need to lay off the crack now! ]

[project.r.racing]

stickers areonly good for 10% - i've recently purchased whiteline front and rear strut braces and a rear sway bar... all the strickers are coming off and i'm painting them black, no need for all that bling and crap, i know what job these to, polished with big stickers does nothing for me.

[project.r.racing]

Q: Can this suspension system be run (stiff) legally on the street? Can it then be adjusted and used on the circuit track and drag strip?
A: Track model can both be use safely on both street and track due to the 36ways adjustability on the damper and rebound rate. You can choose your spring rate and lower it as much as 2kg from its default, but the default is recommended. Street model might be too soft to be place on track use or drag strip. The track model is not suitable or design for Drag race.

Q: What is the diameter of the Shocks in the D2 coil over Units: is it 40mm, 50mm or something else?
A: D2 Monotube Struts are 50mm in diameter.

Q: Can we change the spring rates?
A: Yes, Spring rate are available from 5kg to 15kg under Australian standard, but can special order higher spring rates.

Q: How much we can lower the car?
A: Most of the car models can go as low as 120mm. Some models due to chassis restriction can go as low as 90-100mm.

Q: What is the Length of the Springs, its for the user to calculate a total "ft lb" spring rating of same.
A: We have a balanced spring conversion chart on the length of spring, Diameter of coil to calculate the ft lb.

Q: Do we have drawings detailing the name of the individual parts in the units, drawings detailing the dimensions of the parts - shocks, springs, strut legs threaded section etc. Drawings detailing how each part is assembled? Including the maybe Brake Line support Bracket
A: Please check our technical page.

Q: Does D2 come with installation details?
A: yes, but we recommended authorized dealers and work shop to install our coilover suspension.

Q: Do we have instruction on how the coilover is adjusted? 36 ways? How and where?
A: Yes, D2 coilovers are adjusted via the top centre knob via a hex key needle. Counter-clockwise soften the ride, Clockwise will stiffen the ride. Each adjustment is indicated via the oil droplet on the indicator.

Q: Do you know how the Brake Fluid Line is supposed to be attached to the D2 Strut Leg ? The original is attached on the rear of the Strut leg with a bolt through a bracket in a blind nut.
A: All D2 coilover comes with brake line brackets.Since the lower foot mount is alloy made, therefore the brake line brackets cannot be welded. The bracket can easily bend into shapes and tighten onto the lower bolts.

Q: How much lighter in weight is D2 Suspension when compare to factory setup?
A: The whole set together are around 6-12kg lighter than factory suspension setup.

Q: How long is the warranty?
A: Warranty is 1 year limited liability on the monotube. All other parts are serviceable and rebuild able in Australia. Spare parts sold separately.

Q: What models do we have? What are the differences in different models?
A: Currently we have over 200 models and four different specifications to suit all applications.

Q: What other products do we sell?
A: Please visit our other product page.

Q: I want to swap springs from 13kg to 8kg, can I do it?
A: Yes you can do it, but it will void the warranty of the product. We only recommended a 2 kg drop on spring rates. As the weight of the vehicle might sunk far enough with the softer springs to damage the monotubes causing leakages and other problems.

Q: Who and where can I get D2 install properly?
A: Most of our distributors are authorized in D2 installations.

Q: How come my coilover does not comes with Pillow-Ball Top Mount? If so can I get it?
A: There are two types of suspension setup. McPherson and Double A-Arm.

For McPherson (eg Nissan S15, WRX) designed to have adjustable angle function, when the vehicle turns, the suspension turns along with it and thus it must use Pillow Ball Top mount along with it.

For Double A-arm, (eg Honda Civic & Integra) the angle of the suspension does not move when the car turns. Therefore even with a pillow ball top mount, it does not serve the design purpose of the PTM. It became an expansive decoration which serves no purpose. Therefore for Double A-Arm, our suspension comes with Aluminium top mount.

[Rupewrecht]

Originally Posted by Astro Boy

Yeah, but the only problem with homemade jobbies is that they don't come with fully sik *stickers* bro, which according to known rice fact account for 23.5% of all performance gains!

*Note: The Lada only made it to the finish of the shakedown rally because the layered Ausmicro sticker gave the bonnet 15.7% stronger torsion stiffness, so i know this stuff for a fact!

[ Ok.. i really need to lay off the crack now! ]

haha i suppose the Koni Improved stickers don't count as rice!

But my fridge handles well

[Nate]

lol that reminds me of mtx ad for pimp my fridge ... avoid imatations

[CHiMPY]

Does your girlfirend know you fly this..
Girlfriend??

[CRA23]

you should see my fridge, its hardly white anymore with the amount of stickers, it doesnt run any bettter tho

[project.r.racing]

Originally Posted by deejayryry

After installing the coilovers i found a: -
20% increase in mid corner speed,
30% increase in braking in speed,
50% increase in corner out speed, (this really was a surprise!!!)

After some more playing and testing, i've found that: -
25% increase in mid corner speed,
40% increase in braking in speed,
65% increase in corner out speed,

200% increase in stability, (at 200kph,)
Up to 10% fuel savings, ($5-$10 per week,)

Ok, the stability is much improved at high speeds, previously the car was loose at 160kph and above. But now with with the upgrade the car hit 200kph without feeling loose at all until I backed off around the 205/210 mark.

Fuel consumption is also down, was getting around 550-575km per 45 litres. Now getting 600-625km per 45 litres. Due to the effortless excelleration and lower drag I would be assuming. At least I'm saving fuel!

Ryan

[boostedbatman]

Now you know why Iam such the supporter of the damn things and once you get your sways and strut bracing on you will be like OMG WTF....................
There aint nothin like it
like is asid I never found the cars limitations before
keep pushing
Pete

[project.r.racing]

Problem:-
After some further checking and then pulling the front right coilover semi apart it is found out that the coilover was serviced incorrectly at it's last service. The right/front of the car was sitting 11mm lower than the left/front. and in doing so, killing my left hand turning handling/speed/balance, and killing my wheel alignment, (both which I was sus about.)

To fix this problem I have adjusted that coil 11mm higher than what is was currently set at. Steps to do this are:-

Jack up car,
Undo nuts,
Remove wheel,
Turn coil ends until moved 11mm up,
Tighten coil ends together,
Put wheel back on,
Redo nuts,
Lower car.

Done, car sits 11mm higher on the front/right and all it took was 7 minutes time to do. Simple and easy.

BEFORE


AFTER


Conclusion: -
Even with a dodgy suspension problem, I was able to fix it all by myself and with the correct tools. If it was a strut suspension, this could not have been fixed without getting new springs. Now I can go play harder with all the other kiddies.

Ryan

p.s. Pete, I'll talk to you soon about this problem.

[project.r.racing]

I had my 1st hit out (Motorkhana) with the coilovers last sunday (Mother's Day.) Run this 1st 2 stages i ran at softest setting. Then the next 2 stages at medium setting. And the final 5 stage on the stiffest setting. Worked the best on the hardest setting, car slid well, front gripped awesome, even in the wet. And the car hardly swayed at all.

[twilightprotege]

this it the first time i've had a look at this thread and i'm curious ryan as to what you're saying.

this is all to assist newbies etc, but it comes across as if coilovers are light years ahead of a traditional setup and was curious as to your reasoning. all your % increases in speed etc. what's not to say a shock with the same rebound and internal characteristics and a coil spring with the same spring rate will handle any different?

[project.r.racing]

ok, coils are designed differently and and extremely stronger in holding and supporting the springs

if the shocks and the springs were that same, then i agree the the handling would be the same.

ohthat would be fine, but you will not buy a off-the-shelf lowered spring with the same spring rate as coilovers.

kings etc run between 2.5 and 4.5 kg , coil overs depending on the model car run anywhere from 5 up to 16 kg.

try putting a 7/9/11kg spring into a normal strut and the 1st bump you hit, the strut/spring end is gonna collapse/buckle under the extra stress. struts were never designed for running such high spring rates.

i'm not shooting the strut/spring idea out of the water, but
strut/spring set up with kings and konis etc
springs - $400
spring rate 3.8 front, 3.2 - 2.4 rear
adj shocks - up to $1000
top ball mounts - $400
camber adj - $150
total - up to $1950

D2 coilovers
all the above listed features
PLUS MORE
120mm height adj
$1750
spring rates 7.5 front, 5.1 rear

simply, coilover are cheaper and a better product if you wanna race/compete at i high level.

cheers for the question andy.

Ryan

p.s. all this info given is just from my expriences with both set-ups, i have run on kings and now i'm running the JICs. this thread was to try to give people a understanding of what coilovers were as not many people know about them.

[twilightprotege]

ok, what i was trying to point out is that if a shock has the same rebound etc as a coilover shock and the spring rates are the same, both will handle EXACTLY the same.

the other point i was trying to make clear is that if you get adjustable shocks and the same spring rate springs, the only advantage coilovers have over a traditional setup is ride height. for the average joe, coilovers are way over the top. how often have you changed the ride height ryan? tim? pete? imo, coilovers are only of benefit if you have a race car and drive that car on the street.

[Astro Boy]

Oh my god bro you dis coilovers cuz? u tried taking the sube through milton decked? dont tink so u sayin' my ride aint a race car? you beta b carefull wot u say we aint on ur turf anymore...

me uncle shop hook me up wit dis ful sik setup cuz is da sh!t make proflex look like water tubs there a % increase i tell ya....

[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by Astro Boy

Oh my god bro you dis coilovers cuz? u tried taking the sube through milton decked? dont tink so u sayin' my ride aint a race car? you beta b carefull wot u say we aint on ur turf anymore...

me uncle shop hook me up wit dis ful sik setup cuz is da sh!t make proflex look like water tubs i tell ya....

ur turf no more Astro Boy..if you're gunna talk gangsta, do it proper like :P..and finish it up with a "i cut you foo!"
:P

[Astro Boy]

oh my bad!

[Astro Boy]

The ONLY advantage of coilovers are adjustability... THAT's it!!! They aren't necessarily better, and you street racers that think you need to spend big on fancy threaded struts you blatantly haven't got the faintest about car setup, and aren't likely to reap the benefits of adjustability as you'll probably go backwards anyways, justified by all you FWDers that think that putting a huge front bar on and not touching the rear will make your car handle better, then wonder why your car understeers off the first corner, just because your car corners flatter, doesn't mean its cornering faster...

If you want fancy looking struts go buy decent inserts and some chrome strut sleeves, and leave adjustability to a place and a time when you've got the avaliability to reap the benifits, and it certainly ain't on a street car...

[Savvyfx]

so is Ryan's post acurate about the price? Astro Boy you keep shooting down coil overs for a street setup. While I'm not going to debate you on this issue, as I believe you know way more than me about this and would most likely be correct it is the price that concerns me.

Now consider I would have to buy:
Springs. $400 ?? Cheaper maybe?
Shocks. $800 ?? Cheaper maybe?
Camber Adj. $150?

1350. That is not adjustable. So if I bought the wrong drop springs, I wouldn't be able to get up my driveway if it is dropped too low. When I move house, I may be able to change the height if it would be beneficial. (Looking at changing house within the year).

I hope you see my point. What I'm after is your point of view, whether I should get coilovers as I want or save some dollars. I do have plans to upgrade the rest of my suspension as I go. I don't want to do that first because my car rides like a 4wd, and appearance is important to me.

[twilightprotege]

omg astro boy and i agree on something!

camber adjust - how often would you change the camber? also pillow ball upper mounts adjust camber so you dont need to adjust it twice

savvy - well if you bought the wrong drop springs then that's a bad purchase.