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Old 14-12-2008, 07:49 PM   #1
02-KQ-LASR
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new boot install questions. (box size/dimension help!)

hey guys
ive decided today to get off my butt and finish of a final good copy of my boot install.
to make one that will be definate, i want the design to have the sub in a longer sized box that can lay down onto the floor and be facing up towards the rear of the car.
i then wanna be able to mount the amp on a board that rests upright against the rear seats.

so the floor is covered by mostly a sub box that is thin, but still angled up, and the rear of the seat has the amp facing out too.

i plan on doing it all up, trimmed etc etc. i just want a little help in working out the boxes dimensions and getting the measurements right....
does anyone have any advice??
the sub im using in an alpine type s 12in.

can anyone help me?
i know its hard to describe, but i tried to make a pic of it on photoshop to help explain, but it looked like spagetti! lol. it made no sence to me, an i drew it!!
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Old 14-12-2008, 08:38 PM   #2
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SO I guessing you want to do something like what I have but with the sub box going the whole width between the shock towers? Cause thats all I could get a grasp of in that post

pic for illustration purposes
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Old 14-12-2008, 08:53 PM   #3
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on the box ur sub came in it should say how big a volume is the best for what type of encloser ur makin. just need some basic math :P What are you going for? sealed is good for the responce but ported will give u more dB. Tip, line the inside of the sub box with deadening foam. i give my sub boxes a outside lining of resin and then paint if u want that shiney look rather then carpet. Also if ur runnin a really powerfull sub then its a good idea to use marine ply (wood and fiberglass ply)
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Old 14-12-2008, 09:09 PM   #4
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Here is something to help ya if its ur first box build (or even if u've built a few, i still use it)
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
all the info u need is there
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Old 15-12-2008, 12:06 AM   #5
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also depends what music you like most. i would not recomend a ported box if you like fast sharp beats, cus u will get sloppiness. if you like lets say hardstyle techno with very closley repeadetive beats then you should go with a box that is enclosed, and preferably a little undersized in volume to the specs for the sub. it will gie you a better cushion of air and your sub or amp wont have to work as hard to punp out the beats. ofcourse this way you will receaive weaker bass, but it will be a lot more precise and pronounced. if you like RnB or rock then a ported box is a really good way to go, but make sure that you follow the specifications for the depth of the port one thing you could do is make a ported box that has a removable port cover that way you have something in between (ported boxes are usually bigger in volume than sealed)
and as moons said use the foam matting you will get heaps better sound with that. also have a think about what you want out of your boot. look pretty? have space? its hard to have both.. rupes
sub is placed very good and takes up minimal space and looks very factory
infact new lancer "sportbacks" the new subi ripoffs have a very simmilar design (they ripped it of rupe )

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Old 15-12-2008, 06:25 PM   #6
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na the setup i have at the moment, has a custom trimmed box that is the width of the rear of the boot. and it also has a false floor.

what i wanna do is the the sub in the middle of the boot.
and coming outwards toward the hatch. so it would sit facing out on the floor.
not against the seats.
ill try to make up a pic and show ya what i mean...
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Old 15-12-2008, 06:42 PM   #7
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u mean coming out of the wheel well?
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Old 15-12-2008, 06:56 PM   #8
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sorta. i will still have a floor in tere, but it would be in the same position in the boot as the wheel well.
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Old 19-12-2008, 12:01 PM   #9
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if ur puttin in a false flood for a sub i highly recommend puttin down some deadening mat along the floor...and don't loose ur 10mm spanner in the wheel well cause it jumps around like buggery :P
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Old 21-12-2008, 01:05 PM   #10
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Its a good idea if ur gonna be runnin some serious sound to get a 2nd battery in the boot. Less cable to the Amps means beta power. If ur takin out ur spare wheel and the subs ass is going in there then it may be a good idea to think about another battery (maybe a capacitor too). Best idea for a small space like that is a goffer battery. Yes the thing ur grandma drives around on, most have very good gell cell batteries that r nice and small. Just don't steal ur grandma's one :P
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Old 21-12-2008, 01:24 PM   #11
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hehe or a gocart one or a motorbike one, as loong as its a 12V battery it will be able to get charged from the alternator
ofcourse another battery and a bigger system might mean a better stronger alternator and a sacrifice in engine power haha all a tradeoff in the end
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Old 21-12-2008, 01:52 PM   #12
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Ye i gotta look at gettin a bigger alternator, and a bigger cap 2 Farrad isn't enough. Another problem u get is where to run all the 4 guage wires :P bit big to run along the doors and looks odd under carpet. Goffer batteries r good cause of the gell cell. Most of the Karts i've seen and raced just run normal ones, u only need to run 1 spark plug :P and ur computer if u run one.
Best Subs for small spaces def have to be the Pioneer TS-SW1241D Slims use bugger all power and pump good RMS (12 inch does a good 1400w at $300 each) and cheap for what they r. Just make sure u have enough Amp power and don't pop them. Best quality and overall sub would be Pioneer TS-W2504SPL SPL C-Type Subwoofer at $450 and output power of 2500w.
Ultimate drool sub (was thinkin of gettin one but it would litteraly pull my car apart) Soundstream xxx series XXX-18 sub 10000 (no typo 10k) RMS!! burst at 20k. But $2.5k each and the Amp ot run it cost $3.5k. Yes they come with certs sayin they r the most powerful production sub.
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Old 22-12-2008, 08:43 AM   #13
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you shouldn't need any capacitor. They're the bullsh!t of car audio in my opinion.
Just make sure your connections are good, and you sand back the paint on your ground to chassis.

For a single 12" you shouldnt need a second battery either.

If you have the correct size box don't use the foam matting inside, because it simulates a larger box. Best not to use it at all.

You'll need to use fibreglass matt to get a decent box shape to fit the wheel well. Just remember to lay down some foil to stop it from sticking to the metal.

are you going to put a grill over it so you can still put stuff in the boot ?
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Old 22-12-2008, 10:20 AM   #14
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I said "if ur going to run some serious sound"
And if u understand what a capacitor does then u wouldn't say its bullsh!t. I'd like to see any decent sound system without one, unless they are running multiple batteries. U can only pull so many amps out of a battery at one time.
Correct about the foam simulating a bigger box. But most boxes u see now have a lining of foam because the simple pressure in the box can pull them apart (even pro built ones), and fiberglass ones flex and stress. Subs r only gettin bigger beta and faster, a deadening lining can also save u some rattles.
Best thing to stop glass stickin to metal is good old cling wrap :P or Vasaline.
Best way to glass for a box is 2 layers of glass and matting and then chicken wire and a light weight bog on the inside.
do the bottom first then built ur false floor and skeleton out of wood then built ur top half, maybe a good idea for the top to be in wood cause im guessin ur gonna still chuck stuff in ur boot. maybe a good idea if ur buildin a false floor to add in a spot for ur amp to sit too.
Good luck and will love to see pics when its finished.
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Old 22-12-2008, 10:37 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moons View Post
Ye i gotta look at gettin a bigger alternator, and a bigger cap 2 Farrad isn't enough. Another problem u get is where to run all the 4 guage wires :P bit big to run along the doors and looks odd under carpet. Goffer batteries r good cause of the gell cell. Most of the Karts i've seen and raced just run normal ones, u only need to run 1 spark plug :P and ur computer if u run one.
Best Subs for small spaces def have to be the Pioneer TS-SW1241D Slims use bugger all power and pump good RMS (12 inch does a good 1400w at $300 each) and cheap for what they r. Just make sure u have enough Amp power and don't pop them. Best quality and overall sub would be Pioneer TS-W2504SPL SPL C-Type Subwoofer at $450 and output power of 2500w.
Ultimate drool sub (was thinkin of gettin one but it would litteraly pull my car apart) Soundstream xxx series XXX-18 sub 10000 (no typo 10k) RMS!! burst at 20k. But $2.5k each and the Amp ot run it cost $3.5k. Yes they come with certs sayin they r the most powerful production sub.
hmm somethings dodge here? pioneer slim putting out 1400 RMS? its only 350RMS and costs the same as a type-s, but doesn't sound as good (same box, same amp, try it). The C-Class is 800RMS, not 2500W. peak doesnt matter.

+1 dogo the only reason you'd need caps at all is if you can't draw enough power from the battery when you need it. run 0ga cable and a beefier second battery and you won't need it.


02-kq if you measure up your boot and how long/wide/high max you want the box to be and what shape/amp config i'll give you the dimensions and a diagram. it sounds like you want to put the box over the spare wheel, not replace it?
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Old 22-12-2008, 02:50 PM   #16
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I'm pretty sure I know what a capacitor does. I've been in the car audio scene for about 15 years now and been involved or competing in car audio competitions for many years. If you want to see a "decent system" that doesn't use them then you're welcome to take a look at mine - or just turn up to any MEA national competition event in your local area.

Real life tests show a decrease in performance from adding a capacitor , and there are reasons for that.


Anyway, beware of overkill. The system you describe doesn't need a second battery and I get the impression that you're not after "shake the car apart" bass anyway.

Rather get the most out of your money by making a good box. Careful design and construction is a must. Read up the tutes on mobile electronics australia if you haven't already.
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Old 22-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #17
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"As you may know, Richard Clark is one of the founders of autosound2000 Tech Briefs, Carsound magazine, and a published author of the industry of mobile electronics. In SQ competitions, he posted a record of 1234 1st place finishes, and only ended up NOT 1st in his first event. I've heard that he had minor system problems, but judging by his record, he must have corrected it. (evidently, he needed a Capacitor )
Wayne Harris was previously a leader at Rockford Fosgate in their development. Later, in his free time, he created the organization we call DB DRAG. Wayne was the first SQ World Champion from the organization we know as IASCA (International AutoSound Challenge Association).
Both of these gurus are both legends, and considered the leading experts in the field. During their competition days, both guyz came up with a way to assist in the prevention of voltage drops. In SQ competitions, the look of your system is actually more important than the sound, and having your lights NOT dim under high playing levels is a competitive advantage.
As you may know, amplifiers are made up a bank of little capacitors, resistors, etc. What has been common engineering knowledge is that capacitors store energy, and more or bigger ones assist in balancing the power supply.
Wayne came up with the idea of putting several dozen 'little' (approx 100uF) capacitors on a circuit board to 'extend' the power supplies storage. At about the same time, or shortly afterward, Richard came up with the idea of one huge mondo capacitor (I believe it was 800,000uF or 0.8F) to do the job.
Eventually, Richard won. The large cylindrical tubes won over the complicated 48 caps strapped to a circuit board."
"A cap can buffer and smooth out the current. They are used in amp to buffer the "noisy" voltage from our car's electrical system.
There are purposes for them, however, it's not really what people think or better yet what marketing tells them."
Dogo sorry but i do think Richard Clark and Wayne Harris have a lil more exp then u. But i do see where u r coming from and it is a extremely valid point. I'll agree a Cap hardly does anythin at all and if u don't care about the very minor sound riple or lights dimmin a lil then don't put one in. I just do it cause whats the harm in spendin a lil extra money. But if u think they will make ur subs crank harder then think again. I would say all (or majority) of my cap is simply basses on electrical problems like neons dimming.
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Old 22-12-2008, 06:50 PM   #18
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LOL 1234 1st place finishes haha thats roughly 4 years having 6 competitions a week i think that, and no offence, you are full of sh!t.. ever since you came on to this forum you allways stirred trouble. im not saying your stupid, im just saying your miss informed. i dont know how old you are and frankly i dont care, age does not mean inteligence it SHOULD mean wisdom, something that you clearly dont have as part of wisdom is the ability to ACCEPT that you are wrong and to LEARN from your mistakes, and it also means understading that anyone can make mistakes, we are only humans. For example, look at stephen hawking, "smartest" man in the world, just recently came out and said whoops my theory was wrong... sorry. see everyone can be wrong. i dont know much about capacitors used for audio, and i find them useless in any audio setup, as from what iv learned they only rectify and smooth out voltage spikes that are created by a brush alternator, or any other device that needs a very precise voltage such as avionics equipment, and can be used as a fast realease methods for electricity (something like a Neon starter..) capacitor would make more sence for a mid - high range speaker as they get affected more than a "2000WRMS" (thats 160 +amps hardly a precise insturment...)
end of rant..
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Old 22-12-2008, 07:37 PM   #19
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1234 wins i think is in his life. Seems a lil high to me too. i copies and paste, hence the " ". Mostly www.audiogroupforum.com
I was sharing my opionion and what i'd been told. If i'm miss informed i'm sorry for that. But i do find this attackin attitude that some of the members on here some is tiresome and is probably the reason there are not too many ppl that are members, mind u it is hardly different on any other forum and hardly suprising because the general attitude of car modifiers is that they want there car to be the best.
U'll find the majority of the top 10 sound technitions in the world will argue about the use of Caps. It's best to do your own reasearch and ask ppl that specialise in car audio and get there oppinions.
Also footnote, if u like stephen Hawking then u should read his bet on naked singularaties, its a cracker.
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Old 22-12-2008, 07:59 PM   #20
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If you dont like the opinions that some of the members on here give, dont reply... simple!

+1 for Dogo, A waste of money, I have blown soo much money in cars on audio, and my $900 system in my current car now ****s on the $2500 stereo I had in my previous car.

What you have to understand is, your only running your stereo off the battery when the car isnt running, and when it is, thats where the alternator kicks in. get a bigger alternator = more power flow = less dimming in the lights etc.
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