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Old 09-01-2013, 03:48 PM   #1
ross
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Dynamat questions

Hi All.

Over the weekend I picked up the BA hardtop and drove from Melbourne to Canberra via as much twisties as I could. I love this car, but the noise really bugged me.

The problems I noted in order of annoyance were:
  1. ingress of road noise
  2. tinny sounding doors
  3. heat through the floor

The speakers are OEM and there's just an Xplod deck, so the audio quality wasn't particular exciting, especially considering the amount of road noise coming in. However, there wasn't any vibration from that source that I could pinpoint.

I started looking at Dynamat and Dynaliner. The manufacturer recommends Dynamat Xtreme and Dynaliner over the top of that. Is this overkill?

My thoughts were to do the doors first, then boot, then floor in the next year or so when I get some upholstery done.

My questions are:
  1. While the vid shows the inside door skin, people online insist that the outer door skin should be done also or instead of this. Any opinions?
  2. is the Dynaliner neccessary for any of the places?
  3. is it difficult to refit the door liner after either Dynamat or Dynaliner installation
  4. it seems ok in cost to buy off ebay but costs a bomb to fit (the audio guy quoted $1k for front and rear doors, supply and fit outside and inside skins to front and inside to rears), is this because it's a really hard/time consuming job?
  5. my door internals are ok now, is it recommended to precede the Dyna stuff fitting by any pre-emptive maintenance?

I'm going to install an Orion AVR6.1 headset once I've paid it off but not much point atm. Thanks in advance

Last edited by ross; 10-01-2013 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:25 PM   #2
HAIGHIE
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Hey mate i've just done my hole boot and inmer and outter door skins, i will throw some picks up on my build thread in the next couple of days, to be honest the biggest road noise blockage gane was the doors, but then the boot made a fair difference aswell took away the tinny-ness of the car, i am still to do the floor and roof but from nothing to wheat i have done was quite noticeable,

I've only put extrembulk in mine so far i will be putting dynapad on the roof and maybe on the floor, as far as fixing things in your door at a later stage well i went in with the i'll worry about that then mind frame hahah, and yes it price
Of the install is because it's so time consuming take about 1.5hours a door, and you get sick of doing it after the second one haha thats why it took so long,

As for adding weight to your car don't let people talk you out of it for the sake of 20kgs its deffs worth it and really 20kgs isn't much really i didn't notice and difference just a wank factor excuse for people who don't have it,

Over all i'm happy with it made driving long trips much more pleasen't and my sound sustem sound so much better so go for it, and save ya self a dolla and do it your self it's easy as just time consuming nothing a weekend amd a couple of beers won't fix
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Old 09-01-2013, 07:50 PM   #3
ross
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Excellent advice, thanks. I'd be keen to have a look at the pics.

Did you use a heat gun? Do you cut uot all the holes in the door or just what is necessary for wires speakers etc?
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:28 PM   #4
Clean_Cookie
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do NOT use a heat gun on rubber based products, it is VERY easy to bend and mould, i was expecting it to be much thicker than it was.

ive installed 5 boxes of 36ft *bulk packs* from the states @ $200ish a box delivered. theres a place here selling them for $175 down south, maybe do some ground work as that is about 1/2 the average price I found when looking around. ontop of that I installed the heat insulation, which is like a bubble wrap, cheap from the states, about 120ft2. over that I installed a layer of 4kg/m2 rubber mat, which was by far the hardest to work with. as for how it works, I cannot say yet, but its covering the roof, entire firewall, entire floor, boot etc, doors, fuel flap, hatch. some will be installed in the front guards to block stones/gravel noise (and to match the sound of the panels with the rest!)

as for holes, I believe that it should be totally sealed as much as possible, and the speaker can use the enclosure like a sub box (to a far lesser extent of course) EG run them in open air, they are quiet as and lack any definition, put them in a box and suddenly you have sound!.

i have to say I'm impressed with the stock items and will put them in my car as an experiment (amped) to see how good I can get them to sound vs my vifa set. (to see if the dynamat helped with SQ)
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Old 09-01-2013, 11:06 PM   #5
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No, no heat gun was used as cookie stated above it is very easy to work with have a search on youtube about laying it and it is
Really as simple as it looks just as i said time consuming haha,

Umm no my doors are completely sealed no holes cut out except where the latch rods are and the wires but then they are resealed once through with another peice of dynamat so the door now acts like a big speaker box if you want pm me your number and i can send you the pics of my doors And boot tomorrow if you like or i will hopefully have it all up on saturday for you to have a geez
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Old 10-01-2013, 07:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ross View Post
The problems I noted in order of annoyance were:
  1. ingress of road noise
  2. tinny sounding doors
  3. heat through the floor
Before jumping on the dynamat option.

Ingress of noise - BAs aren't known for road noise issues. I mean they ain't free from road noise, but they ain't quiet like a Lexus or BMW. There may be a solution for your BA.

Tinny sounding doors - not sure if you are referring to opening and closing of the doors or the speakers sounding tinny, as you mentioned sound quality elsewhere in your post. If the later, then install some speakers first. Cant expect 16 yo single cone speakers to give you anything except poor quality sound compared to todays standards.

Heat throught the floor - this one I dont really have a answer for. Normally only the BA have a issue if the exhaust has been modified and the heat shield below the shifter has been removed. So you can feel the in you left leg. By floor, do you mean everywhere? Sure it just wasn't a mix of low car and overly hot roads throught a heatwave over last weekend?
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:38 PM   #7
ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
Before jumping on the dynamat option.

Ingress of noise - BAs aren't known for road noise issues. I mean they ain't free from road noise, but they ain't quiet like a Lexus or BMW. There may be a solution for your BA.

Tinny sounding doors - not sure if you are referring to opening and closing of the doors or the speakers sounding tinny, as you mentioned sound quality elsewhere in your post. If the later, then install some speakers first. Cant expect 16 yo single cone speakers to give you anything except poor quality sound compared to todays standards.

Heat throught the floor - this one I dont really have a answer for. Normally only the BA have a issue if the exhaust has been modified and the heat shield below the shifter has been removed. So you can feel the in you left leg. By floor, do you mean everywhere? Sure it just wasn't a mix of low car and overly hot roads throught a heatwave over last weekend?
All interesting points and I must confess that being a noob in the area I might very well be mis-diagnosing.

There is a sort of a hum/whine which I took to be tyre noise (it almost sounds like diff whine). Really annoying to me but wife didn't notice any particular level of noise. Is there something else that comes to mind?

The tinny doors was the 'it's nothing like a Golf' moment. Perfectly appropriate in the day but no satisfying thunk that I'd like.

Yes, it was 40+ day and it was the floor well of the passenger side that it was most noticeable so I assumed that it was reflected off the road.
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #8
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the other thing is I’m trying to get my head around the principles here so if you could tell me if I’m on the right track or not I’d be very grateful. Also please forgive me if I’m not using the correct words.

Dynamat stuck to the inside of the outer skin of a door effectively thickens the skin and thus reduces the amount of road noise that travels through it. By thickening the skin it also makes the door more solid and less prone to vibration.

Dynamat stuck to the inside skin of the door under the liner does the above but also effectively creates a speaker enclosure.

If one was to use Dynaliner it would be most effective on top of the Dynamat on the inside of the outer skin as it would also reduce the sound bouncing around inside. Does that sound right?

Using Dynamat in the boot is effectively making it into a speaker enclosure (no subs) so the same as the door above.

Dynamat on the floor is about heat primarily and to a lesser extent roadnoise? So therefore it’s Dynamat and Dynaliner as an arguably more effective underlay for the carpet.

On the ceiling is academic as I just can’t see me doing it, but it’s heat and noise in that order.
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:23 PM   #9
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Just saying, but for the floor and roof use dynapad.
It's a much better thermal insulator than dynamat, only slightly more expensive.
For everything else use dynamat.

Regarding "road noise" get your wheel bearings checked/ replaced.
And some tyres (especially cheaper ones) can create such a noise.

I would give you a better more extended reply... But at work
Lol

*kill me now... Sick of doing sooooooo many uuu hourrrrsssss at worrrrrkkkkkk. Lol
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:51 PM   #10
Clean_Cookie
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Dynamat is purely for adding weight to the panels. More weight requires more energy to vibrate. Use rubber sheeting available locally (recycled) cost $120 for 15m2 its super heavy but that's the only compact way to block sound. Heat is another layer again. Doing the two layers will help but neither are designed for heat blocking. Google sound deadener showdown. Good overview. If you find the thread I started on dynamat here, there's more info there. .
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Old 10-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #11
ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BG1.8sp View Post
Just saying, but for the floor and roof use dynapad.
It's a much better thermal insulator than dynamat, only slightly more expensive.
For everything else use dynamat.

Regarding "road noise" get your wheel bearings checked/ replaced.
And some tyres (especially cheaper ones) can create such a noise.

I would give you a better more extended reply... But at work
Lol

*kill me now... Sick of doing sooooooo many uuu hourrrrsssss at worrrrrkkkkkk. Lol
Dynapad, thanks I'll have to look that up, yet another variable

Wheel bearings - that could easily be it

and crappy tyres Federal SS 535 will be replaced with Potenza Adrenalin RE002s as soon as I can get the new rims.

With you on the work front
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:14 PM   #12
Clean_Cookie
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Also regarding doors, I found slapping strips about 100mm wide diagonally parallel across the outer skin of the doors gave it a solid feel for less money. On the inner door, full coverage paying attention to the rods etc which rattle which a bit of foam can fix easily. I'd do one product at a time. ive done three different cars, and tried out different techniques, all have made significant difference, but one m2 of the rubber killed most of the noise rather than all the dynamat, and took 1/10 the cost and effort.
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Last edited by Clean_Cookie; 10-01-2013 at 03:16 PM.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:34 PM   #13
ross
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean_Cookie View Post
Also regarding doors, I found slapping strips about 100mm wide diagonally parallel across the outer skin of the doors gave it a solid feel for less money. On the inner door, full coverage paying attention to the rods etc which rattle which a bit of foam can fix easily. I'd do one product at a time. ive done three different cars, and tried out different techniques, all have made significant difference, but one m2 of the rubber killed most of the noise rather than all the dynamat, and took 1/10 the cost and effort.
Is that rubber adhesive backed or is a contact adhesive application?

We're just talking about something from Clarke rubber right?
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