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Old 28-07-2003, 02:54 PM   #21
globalautomotive
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FSE FPR

Hi guys,

Seen as i have been getting a few hits from this site i thought I would pop past and see what all the fuss is about.. Your chatting about my FSE products. That’s great, i like you guys already.

My name is Adam and can help you with any questions you may have regarding the FSE FPR's if you so require. You guys seem to know what you’re on about though. Here's some information that you some of you may have been confused about.

FSE is an Italian brand that manufacturer's Malpassi Fuel Pressure Regulators (FPR). There are a few types available. The one most useful to us modifiers is the High Rate of Rise Regulator (HRR). Basically this means it has a higher air:fuel ratio than that of the standard 1:1. A HRR unit rates at 1:1.7 meaning for every 1lb of manifold air pressure you will receive 1.7lb of fuel pressure. When you press the accelerator the slowest thing to respond is the Fuel Pressure Reg. With a HRR regulator the speed of response is 1.7 faster than factory. This explains the expedited throttle response off the line and between gears.

The HRR unit is also good because it is Rising Rate. Contrary to popular belief, the majority of efi FPR's are in fact rising rate. However they seem to reach max fuel pressure at about 3500 revs and fail to hold any more, leaving the injectors on their own to increase duty cycles in an effort to supply fuel. The FSE HRR increases pressure as required by the engine is allot higher, essentially allowing the injectors to retain duty cycle lengths although supply more fuel.

With rising rate regs of this nature we all understand that fuel pressure in a system is constantly changing to match the air flow through the manifold. They use vacuum/boos to determine the amount of air flow at any one time and will determine the fuel pressure to match this air flow. A correctly adjusted fuel pressure reg will not waist excessive amounts of fuel unless the car is thrashed. Why i say this is because fuel delivery with this mod is like no other in that it will only give you the fuel when you ask for power, however will remain at stock levels when cruising. No other fuel based mod can offer this.

Rising rate Regs are like a safe guard for your engine. By richening up on increases in air flow you can be sure that your engine's combustion chamber is not running dry. A lean mixture especially with a forced induction engine will not take long to crack a compression ring. A friend who just bought a S15 with a badly tuned aftermarket piggy back computer has just discovered that his cylinder 1 is down to 90psi instead of 140psi just because of lack of fuel. What a headache..

As mentioned this unit is adjustable. All adjustments to the FPR's are made at idle. Your factory fuel pressure may be approx 28psi and depending on you air based mods you may end up finding max power at 35psi. Very marginal difference in fuel pressure but that would be the difference between running lean or stoichiometrically rich (rich side of correct mixtures). The easiest and most accurate way of describing the theory behind the use of these regs is as follows. When you modify your engines intake and exhaust, essentially what you have done is increased the air flow volume. The air flow pattern remains the same. Therefore the fuel delivery pattern should remain the same, just increased. Adjusting the fuel pressure up does exactly that.

Fuel pressure adjustment is only meant to be marginal. Quite honestly you should only waist fuel when you thrash your car, otherwise fuel pressure pretty much sits at factory. The reason your closed loop system doesn't make drastic changes to the fuel curve is because of 2 reasons. 1. the fuel curve can only be trimmed up or down marginally to lean out or richen the supply. and 2. these adjustments are only sensed at idle not during the rev range. Seen as fuel supply is essentially the same at idle, no change or very little change is made to the curve.

Finding the correct pressure without a dyno is still pretty accurate and easy (although try to get it on a dyno if possible). 15 minutes of test driving will be enough time for you to increase the fuel pressure up in stages until you find which level has given you the highest power improvement. Increasing the level too high is of no benefit as an over rich mixture will result in loss of power.

As someone mentioned earlier, you will not need fuel unless you have air.
If you don't need fuel then you won't get power. You will find yourself probably be trying to turn the pressure up too high wondering were the power is and consequently waisting fuel. Your response when asked about the product would be... 'ah it gave me no power and it waists lots of fuel.' Not the sort of thing we really benefit from hearing. What makes it worse for us is when that person goes and puts on a air-filter/exhaust and can't believe the power he has gained. :roll:

When supplied to a car that has had no other fuel chips or aftermarket computers currently installed on it we can guarantee your power increase. We can do this because the product operates to specifically provide the amount of fuel required by your engine (twice as fast), therefore providing the maximum power obtainable from a fuel based mod.

The FSE Power Boost Valve (PBV) is a FPR kit. It is made by FSE Malpassi, and offers us all a bolt on solution. The problem with modern efi systems is that the factory regulators position is now usually found bolted to the end of the fuel rail instead of between 2 hoses. So FSE has gone to the trouble of designing little fittings that bolt to the fuel rail to replace these regulators. In the kits you also receive all hoses/fixing items/the FPR complete with a gauge and also instructions so you can do the job yourself. Rebirthing the product in this way has really paved the way for huge sales of Malpassi Fuel Pressure regs.

FSE also offer a range of Motor sport fuel systems, such as H.Vol fuel pumps internal and external and the recent release of the Bullet Cleanable High Flow Fuel Filter.

Hope this helps..

And the winner of the longest message reply goes to.... :arrow:
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Old 28-07-2003, 07:19 PM   #22
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WOW, what a reply!

Really informative and excellent.

So simple even a KIWI like me can understand it.

Many thanks

Crazy Jeff
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Old 28-07-2003, 09:50 PM   #23
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Told you they give good reasoning
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Old 29-07-2003, 12:32 PM   #24
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well bugger me - that was a fantastic reply - back this one up for the tech page

Now that Adam's a memeber of AstingGT, do we get mates rates :P j/k
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Old 30-07-2003, 05:01 PM   #25
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Hey,
I am hopeless with mechanical mods, and wondering if this 10kw gain is true? Which dyno were those results recorded on? seems steep for 400+ though.
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Old 31-07-2003, 09:23 AM   #26
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Power Gains..

As with any mod it's really hard to predict what sort of power your application will get. Performance mods work in unicen. All variables of the combustion reaction have to be dealt with to attain a result.

Why i particularly like the RR FPR as a good performance options is because its function via the vacuum/boost line is to match fuel to air flow
at all times. It will give you the maximum power you can get from adding additional fuel to the system. The power that you do get is in fact power that your air based mods were supposed to give you.

The first dyno i did on a vtec integra was a shock actually, i was expecting half the result we got. This thing hadn't been tuned for ages and the AVO dyno read a 14kW @ wheels, and 52Nm of torque improvement (@145kph) at fuel pressure 40psi. The before and after run was done 10min apart. The dyno dude, just looked over at me and said 'what the hell did you do in the last 10min?' I should have done another run at 45psi because as we later discovered this was the optimum fuel pressure (it was good for 17-18kW). The car was decently ready for fuel though... it had a AEM cold air intake and Tanabe exhaust. With none of that it would have pulled maybe 4 or 5kW @ wheels. You see my point though im sure. Make certain you need fuel!

What i notice about our power curves is that maximum power is at a useable region of the rev range. So it tends to creep up relatively early and improve to it's max power difference between 5-6000 RPM.

Regards,
Adam.
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Old 31-07-2003, 09:35 AM   #27
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Well Adam after all your excellent posts I think I will be purchasing one for my car(soon as I get some money). Its has a 1.8 BP Turbo Motor ( and the Fuel mixtures are ok on the dyno and I managed to pull 112.5kw on dodgy dyno (its meant to be 10kw to low) at 12psi. I just first need to sort out a few other issues like Throttle position sensor and a stuffed EGO sensor.

When I get the $$$ I will do a little article for you on the improvment. Geoff one of our former members said his success was using one of these. 140+kw
with similar mods.

My goal is to get 135kw @ the wheels on a normal dyno with 14psi and stock ECU. Should be higher if I take the 18's off the car
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Old 01-08-2003, 12:11 PM   #28
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dyno

I think your power gain is a realistic expectation... Thanks in advance for the tech write up.
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Old 01-08-2003, 04:18 PM   #29
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Heya Adam

you might remember me - you installed an FSE on my burgundy Astina sedan in south melbourne around christmas time a few years ago - i can only report good things about it. And it works well with my turbo setup

cheers
Daniel
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Old 02-08-2003, 04:01 PM   #30
globalautomotive
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Daniel I remember doing an installation but the car was a non turbo set up at the time. I do remember you, you were a IT dude or a web dude or something. You were a nice guy. Im glad its going well for you.
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Old 02-08-2003, 04:50 PM   #31
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Ive only got good things to say abt mine too. It was easy to install, & I was immediately very impressed with the unit in my v6 BA astina. Only other mod at the time was CAI.

As well as performance in power & response, i found that it made the car sound a bit more beasty too

The trial-and-error approach to setting the guage pressure is interesting, but some guidance would've been good.

For reference, according to the mazda manuals section on testing the fuel regulator, the pressure going into the stock regulator should be :

4cyl BA -
200-240 kPa { 2.0-2.4 kgf/cm² , 29-34 psi }
6cyl BA -
210-240 kPa { 2.1-2.5 kgf/cm² , 30-35 psi }

and with the vacuum hose removed :

4cyl & 6cyl BA -
280-310 kPa { 2.8-3.2 kgf/cm² , 40-45 psi }


i dunno if thats of any use to ppl, or how accurately it reflects against the psi shown on the FSE PBV ...


Dave
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Old 02-08-2003, 04:54 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupewrecht
burgundy Astina sedan
Passion rose Dan :wink:

Seriously, when I dyno the Cosmo I always have starvation issues over 5,000 rpm no matter what I do in the fuel pump arena. Malpassi has been sugested and I now understand why.
Good to know my options.

Rod
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Old 03-08-2003, 06:47 PM   #33
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Dave thats a good bit of information you have supplied their mate. It shows a real comparison between standard and RR FPR's. I refer to start pressure near the 30psi mark and the figure for vacuum off (40-45psi).

The fuel pump for your car would have a fuel pressure of about 70-80psi, and the fuel reg's max fuel pressure is 40-45psi. The start pressure is approx 30psi giving approx 15psi variation in pressure between full vacuum and nill vacuum. This supports my comments related to the 'inability of factory regs to rise,' leaving the poor old injectors to take care of business. In those higher revs, it gets increasingly harder for the injectors supply the demand.

The malpassi will rise almost to the max capacity of the fuel pump if required to, never risking a lean out problem.

Regards,
Adam
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Old 03-08-2003, 07:07 PM   #34
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Well once again my PBV has risen to 45PSI by itself for about the 4th time,i keep adjusting it down and it keeps rising back to 45psi at idle :?
I think the engine wants no less :lol: Its damn strange :P
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Old 04-08-2003, 12:47 PM   #35
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do some weights so u can tighten the adjustment screw better :wink: :P

lol j/k
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Old 04-08-2003, 06:03 PM   #36
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ive got 1 installed in a 91 asttina it done a difference
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Old 04-10-2003, 08:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Cosmo Dude
when I dyno the Cosmo I always have starvation issues over 5,000 rpm no matter what I do in the fuel pump arena.

Rod
Just did a Dyno run today in the Cosmo.
Fuel went lean at 5000rpm as expected then came back to the normal over rich untill 6500rpm.

Time for a re-tune, estimate is another 50kw at the wheels
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Old 29-11-2004, 12:11 PM   #38
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anyone interested in a group buy for the V6?

sorta interested?
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:06 AM   #39
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OK Dumb question time - it appears the Malpassi on the Lynx leaks - first it was the two alloy housings being loose, plus a small weep around the pressure gauge threads. New pressure gauge is in the car now and it appears to maybe have a small weep still...

How are people getting these thigns in and not leaking? Is it really a case of cranking up the fittings as tight as they can go and hoping? Or is there a magic sealant people are using?

Note I did the teflon tape thing on the weekend and think that fixed it - but I generally don't like using those sorts of band-aid approaches so I'm looking for ideas...



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Old 03-04-2006, 09:12 AM   #40
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mine used to be ok. Then when i put it into the new car it leaked around the bolts holding the top and bottom together - not surprising, its old, been tossed in a box for a while, and then went into the new car which has a stronger fuel pump (walbro )

I just tightened the bolts and it was fine.

I use Stag sealant on the nipple threads when i put it in. They didnt leak at all.
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