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Old 02-01-2007, 05:59 PM   #41
DB0984
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just a quick note. the very end of the part of the grill you are cutting out gets very tight and tricky to work with. I actually went through the outside of the grill here, but not to worry as you can't see it from the outside.
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Old 02-01-2007, 06:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB0984
i have now ordered a hiclone and will see if this helps with the fuel consumption issue, it will hopefully give a bit more power aswell. I will let you guys know how it goes.
be sure to before and after dyno it...

From what I can tell (and i'm no engineer, just a skeptic from way back) the boost in fuel economy is due to a REDUCTION in flow of air (reduce the flow of air, the MAF more or less instructs the ECU to add less fuel and you go backwards in power...)

This ties in with people saying it reduces induction noise...probably because its slowing the air down and baffling it.

Remember, the goal is to achieve laminar flow..which is undisturbed, non-turbulent flow of air. By "spinning" the air you are mucking around with this.

Not saying it *wont* work, but just saying get it on the dyno with and without it and just see whether its giving you better fuel economy by robbing you of power

They offer a money back guarentee so if it doesn't live up to your expectations, you can always send it back - so worth while having a look at, at the very least let us know how you go with it
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Old 02-01-2007, 07:49 PM   #43
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Hiclone never worked when I tried in my 4cyl Camry... Make good use of your money back garuantee, mind you the postage back is at your own expense.

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Old 02-01-2007, 08:48 PM   #44
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I've always thought they would only work with a straight pipe with absolutely nothing in the pipe. My thinking is that things such as bends in the pipe, sensor mesh and then the throttle body itself would prevent a true 'swirled' airflow. So all you end up with is another restriction in your intake....
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Old 02-01-2007, 08:52 PM   #45
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Unless you have the damn thing inches from the throttle body you will lose the effect of it at any rate. Never mind that it gets all farked up by the throttle butterfly and then the inner plenumn and then finally parted down the runners...
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Old 02-01-2007, 08:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chipa
I've always thought they would only work with a straight pipe with absolutely nothing in the pipe. My thinking is that things such as bends in the pipe, sensor mesh and then the throttle body itself would prevent a true 'swirled' airflow. So all you end up with is another restriction in your intake....
bends in the pipe (mandrel bends that is) shouldn't alter the "swirl" effect...

but more to the point, and you sort of hit on it a bit, you need to get as much volume and velocity to the throttle body as possible - once it hits that its going to get disturbed, and you've (on our cars at least) only got a very short space to remove the turbulence in the runners.

Swirling hte air is introducing turbulence...yes it may speed the air up slightly (i stress *may*) after the swirly device thingy - but its highly doubtful that you'll get as much air to the intake manifold as you would if the air was "unswirled".

2 things you want: velocity and volume... its a trade off..you can have super high velocity, just use a straw to suck air in..but you wont get much volume of air...theres rules of thumb for how to get close to the perfect trade off (i think on an NA car is something like intake pipe 125% the diameter of the throttlebody).

By putting something in the pipe to make it swirl, you are slowing the air down for one, because hte air has to travel around the swirly thing - and secondly you are restricting the amount of air getting into the pipe in the first place.



but hey..try it out..like i said before, i'm no engineer.....the skeptic in me puts it up there with ionizing lamps for improving your well being, and plastic balls you put in your wash instead of soap powder....but I could be horribly wrong.
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:00 PM   #47
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well i have a dyno run from when i got the exhaust on. i will let the hiclone settle in for a week then get it re-dynoed and let you know if there is any difference. i have made the ghetto mods to the grill and resinator, so that may come into account aswell.

The reason for the hiclone is i have been told by friends of the family that they have had success in there cars, so i thought i would give it a try. If it dont work in mine i might put it in dads commonwhore, and charge him for it. :P
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:04 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB0984
well i have a dyno run from when i got the exhaust on. i will let the hiclone settle in for a week then get it re-dynoed and let you know if there is any difference. i have made the ghetto mods to the grill and resinator, so that may come into account aswell.

The reason for the hiclone is i have been told by friends of the family that they have had success in there cars, so i thought i would give it a try. If it dont work in mine i might put it in dads commonwhore, and charge him for it. :P
Yeh

i would not at all be surprised if you get fuel economy improvements..but its not from magically swirling the air....its because less air would be getting to the MAF - thats my thoughts...
which might be perfect for you
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:04 PM   #49
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HEY THE PLASTIC BALLS REALY DO WORK!!! :P JK

On a side note maybe this should be a sticky thread. Just a thought.
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:07 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LordWorm
Yeh

i would not at all be surprised if you get fuel economy improvements..but its not from magically swirling the air....its because less air would be getting to the MAF - thats my thoughts...
which might be perfect for you
It only takes 5 min to put in so if the fuel economy works it may be usful to have in around town (as i only get about 500 city driving on a tank) and take it out for highway/track driving. But there is also the short term memory of the ECU?
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Old 02-01-2007, 09:10 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DB0984
It only takes 5 min to put in so if the fuel economy works it may be usful to have in around town (as i only get about 500 city driving on a tank) and take it out for highway/track driving. But there is also the short term memory of the ECU?
there also ecu reset then thrash the car around for 10 minutes
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Old 05-01-2007, 11:00 AM   #52
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Although sceptical I tried Hiclone because it came with a money back guarantee. First 1, then 2. Identical long trips driven with no measured change in fuel economy and no noticeable change in power.

Might be something to do with the air having to flow thru the throttle body, plenum, intake runners, VICS butterflies before it gets to the injectors?

Food for thought: aircraft companies pay careful attention to wing tip design to REDUCE swirling. Why? Because it takes energy to stir up those wing tip vortices (sometimes visible on humid days). Where does that energy come from? The engines!

So any benefit from better combustion needs to overcome the work done in changing the aiflow's direction. In some cars it might, but not mine.
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Old 05-01-2007, 06:46 PM   #53
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sleepy: yeh you dont want swirling, cos swirling is turbulence...
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Old 10-01-2007, 09:37 AM   #54
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Cool, my first sticky!

Still haven't had time to try this out yet, had a busy Christmas / New Year and got a lot more driving done in the MPS

Should be something that I attack in the coming months though, with just the K&N panel filter in place it seems like I might made a few extra KMs for the tank. I will wait until I get a few more through to get a definate answer though...
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Old 28-01-2007, 08:24 AM   #55
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Started cuting mine last night, it's a fair pain.

Gave up and going to get my self a saw today, the dremel alone is not going to do it...

---

Finished the mod, just going to chuck the grille back on, re-set the ecu and off I go...
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Old 28-02-2007, 06:45 PM   #56
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check out my intake set up in my readers rides. works a treat!! has ducting behind the vent in the bumper straight to the bottom of the air box i made, directly under the pod.

if i pop the bonnet after driving the and feel the s/steel intake piping, it is cool right to the throttle body when everything around it is hot. works great.
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:17 PM   #57
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Dunno about you guys but i removed the whole factory air box and intakes and put a K&N pod filter mounted just below the hole beside the air box, did you guys realise the hole there is exactly the same size as the top of a K&N pod filter... I bought crome plastic tubing from Autobahn and made a new cold air intake and shifted the Air flow sensor and temp sensor and mounted the air filter outside the engine bay, it sucks in air from behind the front grill where the spotlights should be.
The difference made to the car is awesome its now so touchy on the throttle. Power is def up.
And the sound.... Has to be heard to believed, have you heard the noise a 1.8 makes when the VICS system kicks in at 4900 RPM....Not until you remove the air box... OMG what a noise....3rd or 4th are the best...
I can take pics if anyone wants to see....and can provide a sound clip too...
I can now easily keep up with or pass SP20's
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Old 01-10-2007, 04:29 PM   #58
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Thumbs up

Not sure if anyone is actually gonna see this seeing as the last post was months ago... but....

Another way to block the 'bong hole' is to cut a piece of plastic to fit the hole and then melt it in. I did this today and its completely air-tight. Definately a noticeable difference in throttle response too.

Drilling the holes in the grill was really easy and definately worth the 15 minutes it took to get it off the car.

Thanks everyone!
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Old 02-10-2007, 07:24 AM   #59
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That's tricky, I just used gaffa tape.
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Old 11-05-2008, 06:25 AM   #60
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yeah a poddie is good enough for me
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