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Old 14-01-2005, 02:00 PM   #41
Rupewrecht
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i've had them for years on my car, and i drive it hard (not just in a straight line). never had any problems with them. and why should i when they're fitted and checked every 5000kms or so (just like part of my servicing)
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Old 14-01-2005, 10:55 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamby1986
and what about a subaru in the formula 1? :wink:
they did, for half a season in the early 90's... failed dismally!!! :P

In the late 80's subaru didn't know whether to attack f1 or world rally.. in the end they attacked both.. setting up STi (rally) and Subaru Motorsport (F1)... i know which worked...

oh, and speak of the devil (and just for the record)... camber pins come standard on some subaru's :wink:
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Old 14-01-2005, 11:14 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ROB-80E
That url above is probably one of the best, simplest explainations of all aspects. I suggest you read before next time you tell someone that caster has got to do with "maintaining full contact patch".
the url is fine and dandy.. and with the exception of what 'scrub radius' is.. nothing i didn't know... BUT... and if you knew what the 'acutual' effects of caster were, and not just from an internet page designed to explain in laymans terms, you'd know that caster had a DIRECT result on a: camber, and b: ride height...

a car can have zero static camber (that is, when the wheels are pointed straight ahead), and yet have camber whilst cornering because that's what caster does... it allows the wheels to have maximum contact with the road for braking and accelerating, whilst allowing enough camber to corner sufficiently...

you acheive this by leaning the tower backwards (or as its known) positive camber :roll: try it at home.. any factory car has very little camber that way maintaining good braking, yet when you turns the wheels... it suddenly gains camber... why.. cause it has CASTER.... now, do the same with a shopping car wheel (from your know it all website).. and funny that.. no matter where you turn it, it doesn't get camber... :roll:

the difference is that the pivot axis is vertical.. thus having no caster!!!

the setback is that too much positive camber effects a cars right height.. try that at home too.. turns the wheels to lock and notice the car sit up :P (this also has a little to do with KPI, or King pin inclination... but not as much)....

now.. funny how i can quote real world facts and your quoting internet pages.... :roll:

DON'T EVER SAY I DON'T KNOW SUSPENSION!!!

its the one thing i do know backwards... notice i comment very little about engines, or gearboxes, or sound systems etc. etc.. why??? because i openly admit i know very little about them.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB-80E
because you tried to make me look like a complete idiot
you did that all by yourself champion :wink:
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Old 14-01-2005, 11:22 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamby1986
I was always lead to beleive, and i am still under this impression, that camber bolts are to change the amount of camber on a particular wheel, which cannot be dialed out with the factory unit. And the only reason for needing the change in the first place was to get rid of the bad, mass produced factory margins-of-error. you put them on if you need it, not to make a "performance" gain, and especially not because it will help when it is being used constantly on the race track.
spot on :wink:

camber bolts that come from the factory have a very slight tolerance.. that is... somewhere +/- 0.5 degree or less.. now.. if it fails at this tolerace, it makes very little difference... but aftermarket ones, with tolerances often around +/- 3 degrees are ridiculous... that means that if it were to fail it could go from -3 to positve 3... and that's not something any factory would ever do....
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Old 14-01-2005, 11:25 PM   #45
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i think from memory subaru's are a little bit more... +/- 1 degree.. I THINK :?

they do this to allow a setup to compliment the AWD... but, even at this tolerance, it won't have a drastic effect on a street driven car if it were to fail... but, it does have factory engineering and testing, unlike aftermarket ones....
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Old 14-01-2005, 11:55 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamby1986
I was always lead to beleive, and i am still under this impression, that camber bolts are to change the amount of camber on a particular wheel, which cannot be dialed out with the factory unit. And the only reason for needing the change in the first place was to get rid of the bad, mass produced factory margins-of-error. you put them on if you need it, not to make a "performance" gain, and especially not because it will help when it is being used constantly on the race track.
spot on :wink:

camber bolts that come from the factory have a very slight tolerance.. that is... somewhere +/- 0.5 degree or less.. now.. if it fails at this tolerace, it makes very little difference... but aftermarket ones, with tolerances often around +/- 3 degrees are ridiculous... that means that if it were to fail it could go from -3 to positve 3... and that's not something any factory would ever do....
define 'fail'

if a bolt 'failed' (became loose), it's going to move say 2mm in it's hole. An adjustable one will be able to move the same as a stock one from my understanding, as the way you change an adjustable one is to rotate it in the hole to a particular angle. If it becomes loose, you're going to notice it - but it's not going to move a whole 6 degrees. once a bolt is loaded up, it's not moving. it will probably move under miminal load, but if it's a race track situation - the driver will know his car and notice the difference.


and greg, <moderator hat on> so you know a lot about suspension. there's no need to be rude about sharing your knowledge. it's fine to point out if people are wrong, that's what this is all about - for people to learn and to share things they've learnt in a friendy manner, not to put each other down.
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Old 15-01-2005, 06:10 AM   #47
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Good call
We are supposed to be on the same side
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Old 15-01-2005, 01:17 PM   #48
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rupe can't we just sack him??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

and since you started it pay attention to where a trolleys pivot point is, now think of it as a front steering wheel (not the thing in your hands)

now stop before your keys go crazy again remember that a wheel is.... wait for it..... ROUND!!!!! you once again have made yourself look silly, because you didn't think to look at the explanation from the correct angle did you???



you didn't did you???

in case you didn't work it out, its from either pivot point down, or from the floor up - and in comparison to looking from the front or back of a car tyre


not exactly a lateral thinker are you?
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:14 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupewrecht
define 'fail'

if a bolt 'failed' (became loose), it's going to move say 2mm in it's hole. An adjustable one will be able to move the same as a stock one from my understanding, as the way you change an adjustable one is to rotate it in the hole to a particular angle. If it becomes loose, you're going to notice it - but it's not going to move a whole 6 degrees. once a bolt is loaded up, it's not moving. it will probably move under miminal load, but if it's a race track situation - the driver will know his car and notice the difference.
true :P it also depends on how the car is loaded up at the time... straight ahead the tendency is to push the top bolt inwards... thus having no effect... but, during cornering, due to lateral g's, the top bolts wants to move outwards, which, if the bolt does become loose, will very easily rotate around and generate postive camber...

Quote:
and greg, <moderator hat on> so you know a lot about suspension. there's no need to be rude about sharing your knowledge. it's fine to point out if people are wrong, that's what this is all about - for people to learn and to share things they've learnt in a friendy manner, not to put each other down.
sorry dude ops: when ppl say that caster "doesn't increase contact pact" and that i know nothing about suspension i tend to get fired up.. i know this stuff, and i wouldn't be pushing it unless others could learn... but yeah.. i don't ussually go about it the right way :roll: sorry...
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:20 PM   #50
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but people know jesus too, and how annoying can that get???

sorry if i offended anyone that cruises to church regularly
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:20 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
and since you started it pay attention to where a trolleys pivot point is, now think of it as a front steering wheel (not the thing in your hands)

now stop before your keys go crazy again remember that a wheel is.... wait for it..... ROUND!!!!! you once again have made yourself look silly, because you didn't think to look at the explanation from the correct angle did you???

you didn't did you???

in case you didn't work it out, its from either pivot point down, or from the floor up - and in comparison to looking from the front or back of a car tyre
WTF are you on about??????? :roll:

it doesn't matter where the pivot point is in relation to the datum... its the angle at which the pivot point is in relation to vertical... in a trolley where the pivot point is foward of the wheel, all that's going to do is increase the scrub radius because the pivot axis is still vertically... that's why (in the real world) a trolley still has zero caster because it pivots vertically, they used it to explain a concept that you obviously didn't pick up on....

Quote:
not exactly a lateral thinker are you?
more than you'll ever be.... :wink:
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:26 PM   #52
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rotate through 90degrees is all i'm trying to say - why do you have to take everything as people trying to put you down???

damn ---->trolls<-------
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:34 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
rotate through 90degrees is all i'm trying to say - why do you have to take everything as people trying to put you down???

damn trolls
i don't :P but i've still got no idea wot your talking about???
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:38 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
rotate through 90degrees is all i'm trying to say - why do you have to take everything as people trying to put you down???

damn trolls
i don't :P but i've still got no idea wot your talking about???
then why don't you be productive and say that??

what part are you having trouble with?
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:45 PM   #55
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your entire post :?
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:48 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
damn ---->trolls<-------
that's pretty funny :lol:
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:48 PM   #57
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see thats not at all help ful is it

did i mention troll? i'm sure i did

any post in particular?
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:50 PM   #58
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the one we were talking about :x Sat 15 1:17pm
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Old 15-01-2005, 02:55 PM   #59
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never made one at that time :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old 15-01-2005, 03:02 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
never made one at that time :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
smart arse....
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