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Old 20-06-2004, 10:12 PM   #61
platypus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odd12c
air temp dont make that bigger diff or they wouldnt run drags in other states
what r u trying to say here put ur air filter in the fridge or oven an get 15% ,i wish
i didn't mention air temp... at all air temp will be a fluctuation of like 5kw MAX and this is like keeping the inlets at 2 degree using NOS to cool (not inside... outside)

elevation is directly related air pressure... or volume...

as you go higher you have less free oxygen, and lower pressures....
if higher were better airplanes would fly into space to reduce their fuel burn requirements....

most importantly... it has been dyno proven that the astinaGT sticker adds power.... my first run i had 50kw... my second run (with brand new shiny sticker) got me 50.3..... but i'm sure that it was more to do with oil temps/oil pressure
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Old 20-06-2004, 10:17 PM   #62
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but going back on what i said... you don't want to have a massivley hot intake charge either... hence the reasoning why intercoolers make a difference to the world
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Old 20-06-2004, 11:26 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
as you go higher you have less free oxygen, and lower pressures....
if higher were better airplanes would fly into space to reduce their fuel burn requirements....
I'm not even going to ask about the fuel requirements (plus other difficulties) associated with getting to space in the first place :wink:
Seriously though, I don't think cars would ever see the kind of altitudes which would see them starved of oxygen :?: :mrgreen:

As I said, so far as I'm aware colder (denser) air will provide more power. As Jynx said, denser air (and colder - remember, stuff shrinks when it gets cold - all the men should understand that relationship :lol: ) means the same "mass" air takes up less physical volume. Given an internal combustion engine has a limited volume (ie 2.0 litres capacity), the more "mass" (containing oxygen) which you can get in the combustion chamber, the more oxygen there is to burn and the more power you will generate.

As for the causational relationship?? I'm stuffed if I know what differences in temp and pressure etc will bring about a difference in power. I would venture, however, that it would not be anywhere near 15% increase....

One of the points I was trying to make before was also that Canberra tends to have colder air and lower barometric pressures - so I would expect higher figures in Canberra to Brisbane....but then again JynX got the same figure on the Dyno in Canberra as he did in the Gong...

Anyway, it's late and I'm rambling

James
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Old 21-06-2004, 06:22 AM   #64
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colder air will yield more power - more oxygen in the same volume of air compaired to warmer air. also, cooler air has a much greater effect on turbo engines rather than non turbo engines due to the intercooler.

on the flip side, canberra is probably higher than most other dynos (but not by much i guess), so the air is less dense and less oxygen to burn.

another point to note - has anyone found out what model dyno the canberra one was? ie was it the 0-whatever whp or 200+ whp model? that might have a lot to do with why the lesser powered engines (ie the non-turbo's) figures were down on what they should be.

jynx - yes it was in shootout mode, and i asked the dyno guy about this. he said that the shootout mode they use is just a quicker way for them to run the dyno. all it was doing is calculate the variables and put them into the computer rather than them having to calculate them. he said if they did the run off their shootout mode, it would yield the same power
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Old 21-06-2004, 07:50 AM   #65
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Well according to data logging in my haltech, the condition in which we dyno'd in were almost identical to what I was reading in the gong which concretes my results. Air temp was about 17deg on my intake which is pretty good, best ive seen is about 14deg on the road. I know my intercooler is working

Shootout mode does the following corrections/estimates:
atmospheric correction, ramp rate and drive train inertia

These can either be software calculated or programmed by the operator.

If anything, I would have expected you to pull a smaller figure in QLD as its a much warmer climate.

Considering the canberra runs were not done in shootout mode, this could explain why your reading was
80 and not 90atw. The 80 is a more "real" figure according to the conditions on the day. The 90 is an estimate of what your car would get in "perfect" conditions.

As for what type of dyno it was, the Dyno dynamics base model dyno (450 single axle) can read upto 900hp so I dont think that is an issue.

Either way, lets put this to rest. As i said earlier, your comparisons about how effective mods have been should always be done on the same dyno under the same testing conditions. What figure you choose to claim is upto you at then end of the day. Just dont go cliaming a dyno is inaccurate because a run that was done under completely different conditions and testing procedures produced a different figure.
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Old 21-06-2004, 08:30 AM   #66
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Quote:
Either way, lets put this to rest
yes lets do that
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Old 21-06-2004, 09:27 AM   #67
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Group hug as well?
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Old 21-06-2004, 11:53 AM   #68
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Shootout mode ALWAYS makes higher power readings than those done in the 'normal' way.

Shootout mode is basically a product developed by DynoDynamics to sell more runs to people like us and it is all based on applying a crap load of correction factors to 'equalise' the results in such a way that in theory every shootout run you do is accurate compared to any other shootout run you do.

I've always wondered why there's Shoot4, Shoot6 and Shoot8 though.... Becuase the resutls between the same car in each of those modes in NOT the same.

But now back to that group hug

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Old 21-06-2004, 11:55 AM   #69
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group hug indeed!

ps - i still want more power though hehehehe
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Old 21-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #70
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is it safe to come back to this thread now????

folks, remind me next time I am organising any get together, to avoid anything which rates a car in any form or factor!!!!

*is permanently scared now*

:shock:
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Old 21-06-2004, 12:35 PM   #71
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Stacks on? :twisted:
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Old 21-06-2004, 04:58 PM   #72
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do something which rates drivers... like ten pin bowling, go karting or snow skiing...

OR

the othere one that crossed my mind was binge drinking
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Old 21-06-2004, 05:25 PM   #73
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go for gold guys

i recon bring on the ten pin bowling so i can end up with the ball in some-one elses lane [thats a true story too :lol: ]
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Old 22-06-2004, 08:00 AM   #74
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OK, I realise I'm a bit late off the mark here but I'd like to add my 'two cents' worth about the dyno day and cruise. Yes, its me with the red V6 - Ball_08 (Matt) has finally introduced me to the world of technology (and for those that didn't witness it on the day - I also used a digital camera!!) It's a miracle. Matt also found that the username I put in here ages ago actually had worked - I just didn't know it at the time! I'll get the hang of it sooner or later.

Now back to why I'm here.....

I had THE BEST two days I've had in a long time!!!! There was great people, awesome cars, heavenly doughnuts (heaven is a doughnut) and I got to hear my baby ROAR on the dyno!!!! Boy, it sounded sooooo good. I was a little disappointed with 62 but have been informed by several reliable sources that that's OK for a car of my vintage.

The best of all though was fingin' around after James's turbo on the cotter road. LOVE that sort of driving! And Adam, I haven't seen any sign of a speeding fine (yet).

So my thanks to Kitty and Aaron for organising everything (sorry I got to that so late in the piece) and thanks to everyone for making myself and Matt so welcome.

Kitty, I did take my car to Reliance Automotive and they were fantastic!! Really knoew their stuff and explained all that they found to me. Had a rotten weekend with the car though. Dan, remember when we reset the ECU and that battery terminal was totally corroded? Well, on Saturday when I parked in a multi-storey car park the battery gave up the ghost and I couldn't go anywhere. Had to get an autoelectrician out to even get me started! Then on Sunday the oil pressure switch blew and I had oil pouring out. Yesterday it went back to Reliance who happily fixed the oil problem an the Battery Factory happily replaced the faulty battery with a super duper one. A small plus but I'm still down $135 from having to get the mobile autoelectrician to get me going. Alarm is still dodgy - must've been something to do with the dud battery, but its not re-setting itself. Will deal with that one soon.

Biggest problem is the vacuum pod that is broken, that can only have been broken when the timing belt was replaced. I'm about to take it up with Mazda. Wish me luck. It is amazing though that even with that vacuum line 'tempoarily' fixed the car just opens up like a rocket at about 4000rpm. Lovely.

Anyway guys and gals, gotta go. I've probably written a novel here and got carried away with the technology.

Looking forward to seeing everyone in October!

Zoom Zoom :wink:
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Old 22-06-2004, 08:47 AM   #75
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It was great to meet you Simone (and Matt), we'll have to take apart that front bar of yours and install the CAI pipe one of these weekends soon.


Just adding another 2c to the jar that is already overflowing re the air in Canberrra debate from a sailor-boy perspective.... There is an apreciable difference in sailing in winds of 25knots in Canberra (at 650odd metres above sea level) than there is at sailing in 25knots in Sydney at sea level. The air here in Canberra is just a bit thinner and whilst it is travelling at the same speed, it doesn't hit your boat with the same force as it does at sea level because the air is thinner.

Not suggesting how this effects car performance but just adding an observation.

*runs and hides* :P
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Old 22-06-2004, 10:55 AM   #76
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*stacks on hugs to everyone*

Ten Pin Bowling might be a goer for the Oktoberfest Weekend, just to see everyone bowl with a hangover methinks :twisted:

Simone, was fantastic to meet you, can't wait to catch up soon! You took some great pics too, when we get around to putting them up, you will be able to download them to your computer and print them out or have a new desktop screensaver!!

Andy ~ you better be coming to Oktoberfest, no excuses!!! It's not as if you don't have enough warning!!! And if you are going to do Simone's CAI, let me know and I will come along for a big hello, and to show off my new shiny CAI too!

Enough about air pressure n sea level n stuff already!!!!

A bee's dick is still small..... :lol:
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Old 22-06-2004, 11:25 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KittyKatSmack
Simone, was fantastic to meet you, can't wait to catch up soon! You took some great pics too, when we get around to putting them up, you will be able to download them to your computer and print them out or have a new desktop screensaver!!
Hey Welcome Simone.. I'll send the pic that i took of your car on the dyno to the email that matt has on his Ball_08 profile

Adam
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Old 22-06-2004, 11:42 AM   #78
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LOL Adam, I have only just noticed the flashing headlights on your avatar...

How long has that been there? If you say ages it will mean I scroll too fast

:lol:
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Old 22-06-2004, 04:51 PM   #79
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LOL!! I only did that the other day.. I think it was friday.. i'm mucking around with Adobe Imageready, took me a little while [about half an hour] of figuring it out after reading a not so straight forward tutorial.. :roll:

AP
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Old 22-06-2004, 04:58 PM   #80
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i know amf here in wyoming do sunday pizza and bowl... is a good deal... just a thought
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