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Old 20-03-2009, 10:24 AM   #1
Daspiffy84
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Question KL 2.5 into a BA11F2 - in simple terms please!

Hi guys,
well i have been reading a truck load of the threads about the conversion of the KF to a KL - and it has seemingly been done without too many hiccups, so here is my situation.
Some may have read earlier that my radiator burst and my engine overheated - i have gone down the track of trying to get the heads reco'd but their density is too soft, which would probably ultimately mean that the density of the block is also compromised, so my options are a reco engine for 1700 plus about 1000 for extra bits and installation (from a mechanic friend) or i have tracked down a couple of jap import engines.
A KF for 1500 or a KL for 1550 from Rolin on the Gold Coast with 6 mth warranty
or a KL for 900 from asian auto spares at Slacks creek with 3 mth warranty.
Probably still allowing another 1000 on top to get it installed it seems like the cheaper option, however i have heard horror stories about 2nd hand engines being more grief than just paying more for a reco. but at this stage financially a reco engine is out of the question and would result in me just selling my car as is without the engine runing (everything else is in excellent condition) for someone who needs a new body but has an engine.
SO the questions are:
1. your opinion on jap import engines and the places i have sourced them from?
2. is it worth it or would a reco be the way to go - if so does anyone know of a cheaper place for reco BA engines?
3. Can i please have a straight forward no mechanical jargon explanation of what needs to be done if i went ahead with the KL conversion and am i right in assuming if its a jap import would it be the KLZE? Keeping in mind i am trying to keep the cost below 2000 - cause that is all i can afford at the moment.
4. If none of these end up going ahead is there anyone interesting in buying my Astina?
Thank you in advance,
I know Mr mx6 has done it and cosmo dude seems very knowledgable so ur input would be awesome.
Cheers.
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Old 20-03-2009, 06:58 PM   #2
Cosmo Dude
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It all depends on your final goal.
1) If all you want is a car to drive then swap for an australian delivered KF-DE, your local roads department should only require you to register the new engine number. You drive away with no muss and no fuss.
2) You could install an import KF-ZE for a little more power but if you want all of its power then you'll need the Lantis engine wiring loom and ECU. With the higher compression you'll probably need 95/96 RON fuel and that costs a little more. Still you'll need to visit your local roads department to register the new engine number. You drive away with no muss and no fuss.
3) Another option is install a KL-DE from an Aussie 626/Mx6 enjoy the extra 16kw and all the extra torque with your factory ECU. Your local roads department may require an engineers cert or whatever it's called in your area before it's legal. 626 overdrive ratios would be nice with this option and you'd have a grunty little cruiser.
The KL-ZE option is a mix of 2 and 3 and probably beyond your budget.
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Old 20-03-2009, 07:16 PM   #3
Cosmo Dude
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Interesting little fact:
The KF-ZE has 120kw in every application except for the Lantis where it has 130kw.
The KL-ZE has 149kw
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Old 20-03-2009, 11:58 PM   #4
Daspiffy84
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hmmm ok then, thank you for that.
i'm still not sure what to do yet, it would be much easier just to get rid of her but i really cant let the car go that easy,
any more input would be awesome guys
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Old 22-03-2009, 12:48 AM   #5
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Look in my ohnest opinion

I think most engine conversions are a waste. (excludes straight swaps - EG and move from a V6 to say V8 in local car etc)

Reason being it makes the car unsellable.

It really does. It also makes the car headache if you not deep into it.

I know people say it's only this much etc. But 80% do it them selves.
A BP to BPT is a swap but it's minor by comparrison via going from KF ot KL. Yes it's plain on the outside but it's still a problem with a few issues. I'm sure it would not be if mazda originally desgined it to take a KL.

EG you can KF - a 626 or Mx-6 because it was standard that way.

I've done heaps of conversion over my time. from 4AGZE into AE92 and even recently helped out on a 2JZ into MX6Cressidea.
But all were doen backyard all done over weeks period.


all my personal conversion have been done in Workshops. I pay from cheapest was a $4500 bill to a $7000 with my 626. includes engine or gearbox
The difference being the things you need to replace.

Converting a S2 Rx-7 to SIV13B - with aftermarket ECU to run the show.Was piss easy over all - because it was only minor things to replace.

my Wagon conversion was straight bolt in. But I did everything waterpump - timing belt all seals - add gearbox conversion to LSD - with new custom driveshafts I actually did it twice. Plus add into it the ECU tune.
Suspension adds etc. One thing I did have to get doen was the sump/ oil sucktion etc it was not straight up 4WD sump don't fit 2Wd so another minor issue reason Ileft it in proffesional hands. Again I don't want the headache.

in effect I took a worn out 626 wagon into one workshop - made it merchancially sound drive it out then drove it into my panel beater and drove it out with clean looks to match.
Now big deal. Nothing really that hard. but it still took over 1 year. 9Months in panel shop but.

See fact is over 6motnhs I had NO car. I had to use my extra back ups - the Lexus and mazda 2.

But if you don't have the patiants -the spare cars - the extra walet ( which for some of us is drying up or has dryed up DAM YANKS)
It's not easy.

IMO
this is the path one should take

Buy a front cut - makes life so much easier if using stock ECU. IF not you have to go aftermarket. And you go all out and look into a ECU in the $2K range about 500 above and below that.
To control your VRIS - A/C - P/S etc etc etc.
your then looking at you get Mr Motor. you need to make sure you put it in right. AKA - water pump - etc give it a brithday.
I always drop sump on any jap engine - it's jsut a new gaskets. sometiems Do oil pump too but if the motor has minmal sludge at top I do open the top up. this tells me if it needs like Deisel flush or similar.

I can't tell you cost yet but think about just the parts now and time.
then you attch Mr gearbox you add a NEW clutch while it's out always do unless my old one was less then 3 months old.

you bolt into new engine mounts again I do this while out it's easier.

all in etc. you might need to fix a up few vacum hoses work out away of making the other valve for emiison happy etc.

There is always small things.

Engine conversion are simple if it's just like Jap -spec motor V local like we did the old ET pulsar with the E15.
Or even the Cordia's and early RS lib and WRX's with STI front cuts etc.

Now a KF -Ze is simple but the biggest probelm IMO of all the K series is the aftermarket ECU's done' really run the best for them. the stock ECU is good for them in N/A form it's nor real advantage to that way unless you open it up.
All the GT-P guys running 626's just found piggybacks gave extreme minor gains. In fact one year I understand one person only just gave it slighlty more timming fuel left stock. Car was as and quicker then others.

KF-Ze offers a bit more it's easier for direct fit and almost plug play.
the KF's have potential due to being mostly restriced at the exhaust end with the CATs.

End of day what I try to point out is , if your not DEEEP INTO THE CAR. AKA if oyu ever think of getting another car. Any money spent you will regreat and think I should of done this and that.

This comes through all minds. I have the luxury of driving new cars - I get given new cars now and then each time back into my mazda's I go OH YEAH, stuff that BS leather V8 or super quiet luxury ride etc.
It's what makes us happy.
Everytime I service the Lexus I get a new IS250 to drive. Yeah great love it. Still not as good as a 2JZ power GS but its' good, but I don't drop everything to buy one. I don't regreat anything. I just get ideas or work out how to make my car as good in areas that car is better.

like I say got to be DEEP into it.
If your not don't do it.
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Old 22-03-2009, 09:30 AM   #6
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In my opnion , engine conversions are for the enthusiasts. Its not easy and its not cheap.

I would put the shell on the market and see if it will sell. Try that for a few months and if no one wants it then try to put in a standard reco engine.
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Old 22-03-2009, 10:07 AM   #7
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At the end of the day the only true return for modifying a car is satisfaction and you need to be an enthusiast to truly appreciate the heart and soul the owner has put into his/her build. As I said above you need a little time for some introspection to identify what your true goal is before committing to a course of action.
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Old 23-03-2009, 10:50 PM   #8
Daspiffy84
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Wow...
thanks for all your input guys.
Well i do love my astina, its, well, was a great car, but yeah i am not mechanically minded enough to know what i am doing with cars, sure i can read a manual and folow suit but if something isnt in taht manual than i have no idea what i am doing. And yeah as for making the conversion to a KL i had an inkling that there would be ongoing issues with it and because of the the above mentioned any problems would need to be addressed by proffesionals and after buying my first house this year i'm not exactly rolling in cash. i was looking for the cheapest option to hopefully keep my astina but it looks like the poor girl will have to go to someone who can give her some TLC.
Well looks like i'll put her on ebay and on here and see if there is anyone who needs a good body.
Thanks again everyone, if anyone has any suggestions about selling her or if anyone is interested let me know.
Cheers
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