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Old 20-10-2007, 09:48 PM   #1
FEM
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Microtech opinions...

Hey guys,

I have been talking to a few people and listening to their opinions on the aftermarket ECU's.

I have heard a number of times that Microtech rate poorly in performance and tunability? I havent really looked into other ones like Link and Apexi

I have heard VERY good reports in the quiet brand "EMS" - Engine Managment System! Lots of people have told me that its only as good as its tune so you maze well spend the big bucks on the right unit to tune - that being EMS.

I heard EMS do the whole lot, not just some of the tune like Microtech and some others.

I have a Microtech LT8 at the moment, with more modications coming up, I will be needing "another" tune to counter for it. If i am going to spend the money getting it all tuned and everything, wouldnt it make sense to go the big guns and get the most 'talked about' engine managemen system - EMS?

As i said, i havent fully looked into the aftermarket ECU's out there so feel free to voice your opinion

Thanks,

Dan
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Old 20-10-2007, 10:01 PM   #2
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arnt standalone aftermarket ECU's illegal?
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Old 20-10-2007, 10:09 PM   #3
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Well i dont have an AFM, is that stand alone?
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Old 21-10-2007, 04:57 AM   #4
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Yeah it's legal, but normally no one cares, just like bigger wheels. Reason - You just mess with the environmental controls of the car. Changing air/fuel ratios from factory setups puts your emissions outside the EPA rules the car where built within.

Microtech is ok - I'll say that about them. And the fact that in your car has managed not to blow fuses or melt in the 1st year, that's bonus for you.

Tuning isn't gonna be a problem since it is already tuned for your current set up. So re-tuning it for a new setup isn't gonna be too hard.

In the TX3 when the BPT was destroyed, (now collecting dust in my garage.) When the BPD was put in, the current stored map for the BPT was able to run the BPD fine. Drove it to the dyno 45km away, and it run an extra 8kW without even being tuned.

Just keep the current MT you have in there. But if you are looking at changing to something better, and there is alot better out there, then change to Wolf or Haltech. Both have more mapping points, more aux ports and other more exciting s@#t. But you'll be looking at $1600+ for a new one, then add installation and completely new tune from start. Hence why I said to keep the current MT.

Ryan

Last edited by project.r.racing; 21-10-2007 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 21-10-2007, 07:27 AM   #5
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Early Microtechs had a reputation for having the tunes "shift" about after dyno'ing. They've also been one of the last ECU companies to get a good transition from cold starting to idling - and even now some of their idle control is a little behind the times.

But the current range is good enough, they can be tuned in most places in Australia and they're very well priced for the features.

Just remember the saying "Microtech, starts second time every second time" and you'll be right

There's better options out their for more $$$, and a few better cheaper ones. But the cheaper gear actually has a lot less tuner support. In Canberra for instance there's not really any tuners who are interested in doing anything Megasquirt based, I can't remember the other really good cheap setup - but it's basically equivalent to a mid-range Autronic and has a wicked self-tune setup

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Old 21-10-2007, 09:18 PM   #6
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you looked in to haltec or wolf? there pretty good and i would rate them...
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:35 AM   #7
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I'm going to change from microtech if this new one I'm looking at works out.

The main issue or I guess reason I like microtech. I can drive to QLd and if I have problem- I can easily find a place to dyno it and retune or what ever. I go to Victoria same SA same.

I've talked to alot of tuners in sydney or friends have and they all start with sayin microtech - here is price. No matter what cray idea they all quote the unit and installed one cost.

Now I've evne heard of some tuning guys like crap out on Autronic units because it's pain in getting some cars to work as well as the Microtech did. In alot of cases it's because of the less mapping points etc.

IMO Haltech is what is working for quite few people in the lower price bracket I recently saw Xr-8 go from it's interceptor unit to stand alone and was really smooth for big cammed V8.

But in the same way.

You alos have to say are you worse off then stock. That is how I measure it. Example I would not use a microtech on new motor. The processing power of new ECU's and funcitons they control is too much for any unit below a Motec in alot of cases. Soem cars now have powersteering controlled by ECU - and they have no pump ! they control ABs etc. Of ocurse alot can't be by passed or removed .

So when you look a BPT unit a microtech is way ahead. Your not going backwards.

Aaron your quote is just right - Starts 2nd time everytime. Love it.

my factory ECU dates back to 1986/87desgin.
A unichip made it smoother -
A microtech was another leap and I noticed it smoother again

my next ECU I just want more control.
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:05 AM   #8
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Hmm, interesting. My good friend has a TX5 putting out 400atwHP and he changed from a Microtech to a EMS when he stepped up his turbo, injectors and cams. He said "I would never look back to a MT.. they are ****"

Its just interesting hearing stuff like that.

What ECU are you going to next, Rodhog?
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:09 AM   #9
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MTs are s@#t!!! Read my 1st post in this thread. But they are the cheapest type of programmable ECU in their bracket, but serve the purpose that most people require. Hence why so many people have them. The cheapest thing on the market normally gets sold the most. Eg - Hyundais.

But as many have said, there are alot of ECUs out there that are so much better if you are will to spend $1600-$2000 for a new one. Things like rodhog said about more control, data logging to name a few.

Ryan

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Old 22-10-2007, 11:10 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post

And the fact that in your car has managed not to blow fuses or melt in the 1st year, that's bonus for you.

Ryan

Yes, i have had 16 fuses blow and a interior fire. Had to replace dash and all the carpet and the passenger door card/skin.

I recommend EVERYONE, and i dont care what car you have, everyone to invest in a fire extinguisher!!! evvvveryone!

I havent had a to gooder run with my car, everything seems to be coming together now so im starting to enjoy it for once.. very happy.. love the astinas
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:19 AM   #11
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Sounds like you actually have a faulty MT unit. Most that blow more than 3 fuses in the 1st year warrenty period are asked by MT to be returned them. As there is wiring/grounding issues inside the boards.

One of my mate who runs a 8 sec RX3 had 7 fires/flames and 3 units in the 1st year alone. And MT is a sponser of him.

But then another mate has had his for 3 years, 1 tune and still going strong!

Ryan
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:19 AM   #12
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They don't call them 'Microguess' for no reason

Motec, Autronic, Haltech, Wolf.
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:39 AM   #13
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YAY for the megasquirt will be goin in next year hahhaha thats even cheaper than the MT...hahaha but for some reason sounds better
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Old 22-10-2007, 11:53 AM   #14
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Us B6T bois are lucky in a sense that we have mechanical advance/retard on the dizzy (don't need electronic ignition control from ECU), so we can get away with chipped ECUs with DFAs to fine tune fuel even further, while maintaning cold start and stable idle all year long... If I was to put my MT in the Laser I would need to get a dizzy from a BPT (or sieze my current dizzy somehow?), but I don't feel like stuffing aroud with that right now. I think my biggest bugbear with Microtech are jumpy gauges or total loss of them. That can be mostly to entirely worked around, but once again, I don't feel like pioneering that sort of thing at my age...

Gav.
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:26 PM   #15
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EMS FTW! High end Haltech features at low end MT price!
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:35 PM   #16
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theres no doubt there are more technically superior units out there to the microtech, but for the cost, the gains wouldn’t be measurable, let alone noticeable over a microtech

if you've already got a MT you're not going to get $1500 (haltech) worth of power gains from swapping it out - not to mention the installation and related costs

if you're looking at getting a ems, you're not going to get $400 worth of power gains from getting a haltech over a microtech. end of the story is that at any given point on a map, say 7000rpm and 14psi, all engine management systems will make the same peak power for the same tune at that map point
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:44 PM   #17
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i think his issue and everyone elses is reliablity...
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilightprotege View Post
if you've already got a MT you're not going to get $1500 (haltech) worth of power gains from swapping it out - not to mention the installation and related costs
already been said...
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:45 PM   #19
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It's not all about power though...
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Old 22-10-2007, 12:47 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twilightprotege View Post
end of the story is that at any given point on a map, say 7000rpm and 14psi, all engine management systems will make the same peak power for the same tune at that map point
Andrew: You're absolute right about the power gains being no different between the price brackets (within reason). An example of this was when Anton went from Unichip to Microtech LT8S on his BJ 1.8T, and made the exact same power (125kW ATW), but suffered the dredded power loss/alternator issue exclusive to the BJII-J48 ECU (and surging), so he actually went backwards...
EDIT: Fact - Anton's LT8S was installed & tuned by ChipTorque, however the alternator issue has been resolved on A BJII-J48 SP20, I am not aware of any J48 1.8s having this fix yet, although it's speculated this fix will also work.

But that last point is the difference you get in the money you spend on the hardware. ie: quality/delivery of your power and running. If you have an ECU that reads every single sensor in your cars engine bay without need of replacing them or doubling up, and even the ability to learn or self tune, that's a massive quantum leap forward in user friendlyness.
EDIT: And? You get what you pay for, the market cators for everyone's needs...

Most ppl on this forum buying aftermarket ECUs are not racing their cars exclusively or even at all, and just want an increase in power while maintaning stock reliability. A couple of ppl still get blind-sided by that fact... I was impressed when Rupe's TPS sensor shat itself on a cruise, but his Wolf 3D would still drive the car with less fuss than a well tuned MT can!
EDIT: I was there, and it was humerous. My point however is power is only 1 quotient of an aftermarket ECU.

Gav.
EDIT: For all your Microtech and associated needs, go see the team at B3Motorsports...

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