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Old 03-06-2009, 04:53 PM   #21
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22" isn't for me, just too dam big....16:9 ftw though...

The i7 is the future, I didnt want to buy something now and have it faze out too quick...but it will be the new greater processor...

For the GP, it was either the 260GTX+ from XFX or the 9800GTX+, out of both, the 260+ was easily more overclockable...
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:01 PM   #22
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it will be a while before they i7 is run for programs and so on...they still havnt properly utilized the quad cores yet...
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Old 03-06-2009, 05:47 PM   #23
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i7 is great for FEA i can tell you that much. models that take up to a hour on my comp can be done in no time on a i7 with heaps of ram
most programs that are HT enabled can use dual core quad core or i7 effectively, but most programs, such as games im told, are not HT enabled, as there is no need for it. thats just what iv been told by some infomech students at uni dunno how tru it is haha
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:16 PM   #24
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I'm somewhat stunned ppl are buying monitors smaller than 22" these days. Lordworm recently bought a 23" 16:9 monitor and true aspect movies frame it perfectly. The 23" monitors are about 1.5" wider and 1/4" shorter than 22" monitors. For gaming a 22" is probably better, but 23" monitors are only slightly more expensive these days.

i7 CPUs and mobo's costs a bundle, and the AMD 920 and 940 (even named comparatively with Intel) perform just as well at around half the price. Touch choice.

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Old 03-06-2009, 08:02 PM   #25
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I'm somewhat stunned ppl are buying monitors smaller than 22" these days. Lordworm recently bought a 23" 16:9 monitor and true aspect movies frame it perfectly. The 23" monitors are about 1.5" wider and 1/4" shorter than 22" monitors. For gaming a 22" is probably better, but 23" monitors are only slightly more expensive these days.

i7 CPUs and mobo's costs a bundle, and the AMD 920 and 940 (even named comparatively with Intel) perform just as well at around half the price. Touch choice.

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My 23 is awesome

its not appreciably bigger than a 22, but it feels much larger up close...

took some getting used to..

don't think the i7 is really intended for regular desktop usage....there was talk of an i5 i think based on the same architecture, targetted at more mainstream desktop usage.

IMHO buying a computer for future compatability is a bit of a futile thing to do... things get cheaper quickly, newer quicker things are out as soon as you unwrap your goodness.... buy what you can afford now...use it until it doesn't do what you want it to do, and then upgrade later.... i only recently binned my athlon XP 1800+ machine - cos for what I was doing it was doing fine... upgrade was more or less forced by hardware that was dying....and i just bought a middle of the row (largely hand-me-down parts from chicaboo's old machine) Core 2 Duo machine.... and i doubt i'll upgrade again for another 5 years or more :P
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:10 PM   #26
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and i doubt i'll upgrade again for another 5 years or more :P
Until you buy a gaming mobo and video card and overclock that CPU.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:11 PM   #27
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Until you buy a gaming mobo and video card and overclock that CPU.
Yeah...true....that CPU is begging to be raped with more volts i think.....software overclock by 600mhz + prime, and the temps don't get hotter than at stock speeds.....
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:14 PM   #28
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Yes, it does +600mhz without volts, but I find Intels like +0.15v for the first 600Mhz, and then who knows what for the next 600Mhz. But that chip will do at least +1Ghz, maybe +1.2Ghz. It's very promising that it's stable without additional volts.
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:36 PM   #29
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noob question how do u overclock a cpu?
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:38 PM   #30
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With a lot of research! Look at your hardware, find out what it's (safe) limitations are, and go from there. Not all hardware is overclockable though. I overclock my 2 Intel PCs by 600Mhz each. I'm not game to play with the advanced settings to go any further, but I have done for short periods of time. I've been up to 4Ghz on my E8400, but I wasn't happy with it's stability.

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Old 03-06-2009, 08:44 PM   #31
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noob question how do u overclock a cpu?
black magic and voodoo


good motherboards will have overclocking options - implimentation varies but basically you get bus speed selection and multiplier selection, and a variety of voltage selections etc..

then you go stupid and research which batch of CPUs does the business better than others (stepping numbers etc). And you go into matching components to compliment it (no point ramping up FSB speeds if ram can't handle the higher FSB speed - unless you want to run the ram asynch...which is a compromise) - and spend money on after market cooling (water cooling if you want to crank high speeds with high thermal loads and not have a computer that sounds like a 747 on idle...)

I've not been big on overclocking for a number of years, but back in the day it was quite common to buy a cheap entry level CPU that would easilly out clock a top of the line CPU at 3x the cost...given that the way the big companies manufacture chips hasn't changed a lot i'd imagine the same is more or less true today....

There are risks - you can damage your equipment by doing it.... so generally you do it in baby steps, and bench mark/stress test the hell out of it to see if it is stable....chances are you can throw your warranty in the bin if you muck with it too
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:58 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo View Post
I'm somewhat stunned ppl are buying monitors smaller than 22" these days. Lordworm recently bought a 23" 16:9 monitor and true aspect movies frame it perfectly. The 23" monitors are about 1.5" wider and 1/4" shorter than 22" monitors. For gaming a 22" is probably better, but 23" monitors are only slightly more expensive these days.

i7 CPUs and mobo's costs a bundle, and the AMD 920 and 940 (even named comparatively with Intel) perform just as well at around half the price. Touch choice.

Gav.
From my research the AMD 920 and 940 were seriously lacking although for the money, to me it would have been more of a "it'll do option"...they arent anywhere near as overclocked as the i7 and since the i7 920 could be "safely" overclocked to 4GHz with a decent PSU

Only reason I invested in the i7 is because Brooke will be doing some high tide rendering with filters and the such...and the old crappy Pent 4 Celeron didn't like load at all...

To Intel is leaving AMD in the dust, especially with reliability and compatibility

I personally dont think buying for the future is a bad thing, obviously it will move along but take DDR2 for example, 3 years ago it was the thing, now DDR3 is moving up and DDR5 is on the cards

As for monitors, its very much a personal choice...i dont like moving my head to view the whole screen and a sit close enough anyway..its like buying a huge TV, sure its cool, but how much TV do you watch?...

Overclocking, consider your warranty void, especially with GP's, my old ATi brang up a warning as soon as i started mucking around with it...lol

As for water cooling..."YUCK"!!! I have been yet to see anyone using as effectively as a V8 coolermaster or alot of other top notch A/M cooling systems..
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:11 PM   #33
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From my research the AMD 920 and 940 were seriously lacking although for the money, to me it would have been more of a "it'll do option"...they arent anywhere near as overclocked as the i7 and since the i7 920 could be "safely" overclocked to 4GHz with a decent PSU
AMD has always been the budget option...
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To Intel is leaving AMD in the dust, especially with reliability and compatibility
reliability? AMD's are often chosen for mission critical server systems where 100% uptime is a requirement...they are rock solid as far as reliability goes...as for compatability....thats a bit of a silly point...one is no more compatable than the other... if its an x86/64 CPU, doesn't matter what the brand is - they'll run the same things and be compatable with the same stuff.... your only major difference will be the motherboard selection...

its also worth remembering that in the scheme of things, "ghz" doesn't matter... the AMD will perform more operations per CPU cycle than an Intel...thats been the case for a long while....which is why they don't need to be clocked as high for the same results. Also, some processors are better at some things than others... same goes for vid cards. It depends on how the software is written and whether it has been heavilly optomised for use with a particular configuration.... ALSO synthetic benchmarks are just that, synthetic....they only give an indication of real world performance...

the gap between intel and AMD is not as big as toms hardware and the like would make out....
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I personally dont think buying for the future is a bad thing, obviously it will move along but take DDR2 for example, 3 years ago it was the thing, now DDR3 is moving up and DDR5 is on the cards
by that argument, you should go and buy a motherboard that supports 16gb of ram and throw that in - no application on earth will take advantage of it, but its future proofing right? even though the next generation of hardware will perform twice as well with half the ram....buy what you need now, upgrade or replace later when you need to do so - cos buying bleeding edge is not only prohibitively expensive, but is potential you'll likely never use.... bleeding edge is great for the e-wang though

To get the best bang for your buck, buy a motherboard that allows you upgrade path (something that will take a couple of better CPUs than the one you plan on buying initially.....because the chip you can't afford now will be an entry level chip in 12 months time....get something that supports plenty of ram, etc etc etc)..then just get "what you need" now....The money saved doing it this way means you can go and buy the most expensive video card good money can buy, and THAT is where you're going to feel the advantage in a system, especially if you plan on using it for games....


Up to you of course....but computer technology grows so quickly that you'll come out better being smart, and not just going for top end power workstation/game rig/server hardware that you simply can't take advantage of in the near term.

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As for monitors, its very much a personal choice...i dont like moving my head to view the whole screen and a sit close enough anyway..its like buying a huge TV, sure its cool, but how much TV do you watch?...
I found going to a big widescreen monitor took a bit of getting used to... but you learn to use it, and then you get its advantages - i don't run applications maximized now....i run it at half the screen, then i dont have to move my head - BUT it means i can have another application on the other half...its kinda like having 2 monitors, only no gap between the 2...if you're doing any kind of editing/photochopping etc, its very handy....and it makes for a gaming experience...most new games are being written to run in HD widescreen...so you might as well jump on the bandwagon. I'm very happy with my widescreen having gotten used to it....going back to a tiny monitor at work makes me sad :P


Final edit: water cooling is used effectively all the time. Get on some "extreme overclocking" boards and check it out.... its so common now it is almost mainstream. Its neat, tidy, and highly effective.... pumps are now available that are compact and efficient, and small radiators that work very well have been available for a long long time... if you haven't seen anyone do it effectively, you haven't been looking too hard....
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:26 PM   #34
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Ive talked to alot of render's/CAD/Modelers and they said that for reliability you cant go past Intel, plus for the MB, the options are there...I didnt want budget..i WANTED it to produce

In short I wanted to overclock and Intel is the better option...and it will do it reliably...

Actually, if 64bit ever actually kicks off, you and me will be running way more then 16GB of memory, trust me...and with the way W7 is being talked up atm, it sounds like a bright future....finally...

The MB i did get will support a lot of major upgrades in the future, but still has the potential to produce NOW!!!...I personally don't see the point in buying stuff that wont / may produce less when you can spend a bit more and get it to perform...after all, if you look at my setup, it ain't top notch but it will handle any gaming / pro photography with ease, precisely what I wanted...
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:32 PM   #35
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From my research the AMD 920 and 940 were seriously lacking although for the money, to me it would have been more of a "it'll do option"...they arent anywhere near as overclocked as the i7 and since the i7 920 could be "safely" overclocked to 4GHz with a decent PSU

Only reason I invested in the i7 is because Brooke will be doing some high tide rendering with filters and the such...and the old crappy Pent 4 Celeron didn't like load at all...

To Intel is leaving AMD in the dust, especially with reliability and compatibility

I personally dont think buying for the future is a bad thing, obviously it will move along but take DDR2 for example, 3 years ago it was the thing, now DDR3 is moving up and DDR5 is on the cards

As for monitors, its very much a personal choice...i dont like moving my head to view the whole screen and a sit close enough anyway..its like buying a huge TV, sure its cool, but how much TV do you watch?...

Overclocking, consider your warranty void, especially with GP's, my old ATi brang up a warning as soon as i started mucking around with it...lol

As for water cooling..."YUCK"!!! I have been yet to see anyone using as effectively as a V8 coolermaster or alot of other top notch A/M cooling systems..
It's your choice if you want to spend so much on a CPU and mobo. AMD in general are quite noticeably more responsive. Think of a big turbo with huge horsepower, it has lag, that's Intel. Hypertransport is awesome in daily useage, so I can forgive slower synthetic tests for a $$ saving. Incidentally, I'm quite disappointed with the C2Q in my workstation, and I don't have the comfort of supporting the underdog that is keeping the prices down... AMD's reliability is no worse than Intel's, that's just fanboi BS you've been reading...

Your head is too small, I barely need to move my eyeballs with my 22" monitor just 2' away!

For everyone else, buy an SSD to intall windows and your swapfile on. I might move to doing this some day soon. Makes it a pain in the bum installing software though. But you can change the location of your Documents folder through the administration stuffage.

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Old 03-06-2009, 09:38 PM   #36
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Ive talked to alot of render's/CAD/Modelers and they said that for reliability you cant go past Intel, plus for the MB, the options are there...I didnt want budget..i WANTED it to produce
Renderman (the software that drives lucasart's render farm) is an AMD farm.
Most of the servers that you see out in the world (or rather, dont see cos they are in dark rooms), that never turn off and chug away forever, are AMD.
Anyone who says AMD are less reliable are fanboys, or talking out their ass.
the fact is they are not.

As for production. CLOCK FOR CLOCK the AMD will produce more than an intel of the same generation. look past the synthetic benchmark hype.
Quote:
In short I wanted to overclock and Intel is the better option...and it will do it reliably...
AMD will overclock reliably, it just wont clock as high. but then it doesn't need to clock as high. The technology in the AMD chips (SOI, RISC architecture, Hypertransport, onchip memory controllers [which i know the new intels have, but AMD have had for a handful of generations now...they trailblazed this technology]) means they don't need to clock as high....they do the same work for less clock speed.
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Actually, if 64bit ever actually kicks off, you and me will be running way more then 16GB of memory, trust me...and with the way W7 is being talked up atm, it sounds like a bright future....finally...
welcome to a few years ago... 64 bit kicked off with the Athlon64 (you guessed it, another AMD technology...an architecture that allows x86 to run a 64 bit superset of instructions.... a technology they now license to intel, the very reason WHY intel can now offer 32/64 bit processors) - it still doesn't mean we'll be running 16gb of ram. You'll only run ram required to run the apps you want to run. Just because 64 bit ALLOWS applications to address stacks of ram, doesn't mean software writers are going to write apps that actually NEED TO USE that much ram. Seriously, high powered database servers don't even need that much ram....and database servers being accessed hundreds of times per minute are insanely ram intensive....8gb gets even the most insane database servers by comfortably...

Quote:
The MB i did get will support a lot of major upgrades in the future, but still has the potential to produce NOW!!!...I personally don't see the point in buying stuff that wont / may produce less when you can spend a bit more and get it to perform...after all, if you look at my setup, it ain't top notch but it will handle any gaming / pro photography with ease, precisely what I wanted...
I get that...i really do...but whats the point in buying something you can't take advantage of.....you're investing in a technology that is new.... a technology that may disappear as quickly as it came (remember RAMBUS ram?), for no point (it actually wont make your machine any faster than a computer at half the price in real terms, IF you are smart with where you spend your money...)...

A few extra points in **insert your favorite benchmarking tool here** is totally unnoticable in the real world...

Not having a go...but seriously just suggesting you step back a bit and realise that even if you buy the best machine you can - it will be obsolete before you even unpack it...and a machine that was the 2nd or 3rd best you could buy is not going to be appreciably slower....
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Old 03-06-2009, 09:46 PM   #37
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Ive talked to alot of render's/CAD/Modelers and they said that for reliability you cant go past Intel, plus for the MB, the options are there...I didnt want budget..i WANTED it to produce

In short I wanted to overclock and Intel is the better option...and it will do it reliably...

Actually, if 64bit ever actually kicks off, you and me will be running way more then 16GB of memory, trust me...and with the way W7 is being talked up atm, it sounds like a bright future....finally...

The MB i did get will support a lot of major upgrades in the future, but still has the potential to produce NOW!!!...I personally don't see the point in buying stuff that wont / may produce less when you can spend a bit more and get it to perform...after all, if you look at my setup, it ain't top notch but it will handle any gaming / pro photography with ease, precisely what I wanted...
Shane, is not a lot of CAD modellers. I use CAD day in and day out, and will be learning BIM soon. I'm responsible for selecting the hardware at work, and I bought the CPUs with the highest FSB over the most cores. This was a good choice seeing how lame my C2Q is with BIM... I went with Intel since they run cooler than the comparable AthlonsX2s, and these machines don't get cleaned that often...

64bit took off over a year ago. It now has priority on all software and driver support releases. And the best thing, it's significantly faster than 32bit! If you're buying 32bit, you're wasting all that RAM you want to get...

Motherboards are a good place to spend the money. They don't lose value as fast as the other components in a system. The only problem you get is with revisions to socket types (90/65/45Nm...), which Intel has been a $#!Thead with over the last few years.
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Old 03-06-2009, 10:30 PM   #38
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42" lcd ftw. /thread

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Old 04-06-2009, 12:07 AM   #39
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speaking on this topic, is there any Sydney-ites that have a decent collection of media on their computer? someone that might share :O ?


just asking since the last crash ive lost over 120gb of stuff and yeah fun fun fun.
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Old 04-06-2009, 05:05 AM   #40
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I didnt buy a top of the line system....just some of the components are more newer/ expensive then the other options I could have gotten...

Since I have already purchased the Case, PSU, MB and the CPU from my list, I think Im on the right track...

My system in total will cost $1600 and I put it together, not bad in my opinion. Ive seen more expensive computers have less

In all the points we have thrown out, nothing is truer then that the tech will advance faster then what it ever has before, this is true for every computer (which is why i personally hate computers, cars are better!!!)

If you have the $$$, spend it where you want, if you want the newest iphone, knowing that the new one will be just around the corner, buy it...same goes for almost every other aspect of life, mobiles, cars, anything, does this not mean we dont spend the money because there will always be something better?...
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