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Old 11-12-2007, 10:25 PM   #81
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Here we go again ladies and gents....when will we grow up? We went from a nice convo about CAI to a mindless whinge about the differences between "Vents & Scoops" how bout we just take our bonnets off and forget the whole vent in bonnet thing....Jesus guys.....come on....you even got Cosmo goin...never seen that before...lol
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:23 AM   #82
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Getting a bit out of control...

For the record though, in my mind, a scoop implies that is an intake (e.g. icecream scoop, somethin which takes something), and a vent implies that it is an exhaust (vent anger etc.) But that's not to say that a there shouldn't be specific mention of whether a vent is an intake or and exhaust.

In the article on fl, he describes his cosworth lower vents as well as the bonnet vents, but you'd only think that the front bumpers are intake and the bonnet, exhaust 'vents'. Though because of the amount of air comin in through his vents it made his bonnet scoop is an exhaust 'vent'... it should have pointed towards his windshield because of the vacuum he calculated. When you think about it, a WRX style 'scoop', is supposed to be an intake vent, with a scoop ontop (to catch more air via surface area), i.e. sticking out of the flat surface.

A front grill can be described as an intake vent, or a bumper scoop the bodywork tapers outwards? whichever way you look at it, they provide ventilation, there is no doubt that the more holes you have in your bonnet, you'll probably have lower engine bay temps. The angle and height and way you cut these vents/scoops/holes/grills whatever! will impact the amount of water that comes into the engine bay... an upwards opened 'vent' will have gravity working against it to pull in water, but why they are pointed rearwards so the airflow tends to pull hot engine bay air away, and water over them (and why some have water catching trays?). cai piping from lower points angled upwards towards their intakes (pod/airfilter) will keep heavier particles like water away from higher points with only airflow pushing it upwards against gravity. As for bonnet scoops ala wrx, or bonnet vents, personally i'd prefer none...

i think that's my point... haha
hope we can agree on most of that


btw. i think the fl test is a little flawed in that he did a fairly ghetto aerodynamics test of high and low pressure, but not really convinced as to what cold/hot air was going in/out (i think he was unsure as well). Lots of airflow, and interesting writeup tho. Stick it in a windtunnel and put parafin gas streams over it
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:41 AM   #83
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woah didnt know there was so much science between vents and scoops....anyway im gonna go cheak out the scoops and stuff then i'll make my decision...
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:46 AM   #84
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yeah i agree on that. personally i don't mind functional vents in the bonnet, preferably towards the rear to draw air through and out of the engine bay, but scoops look a bit wanky and i often think they don't really work too well on a lot of cars. saying this, the WRX's scoop is apparently an integral function of below bonnet airflow/cooling/intake whatever as it was enlarged for the STi's and the recent redesign with that weird center scoop in the bumper was apparently done to reduce the height the scoop had to be.
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Old 12-12-2007, 12:57 AM   #85
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Yeah when i looked at my friends mps3, i noticed it has the vent just above the bonnet grill, and it's isolated through the bonnet bulge, and passes right over the intercooler then exits after. No contamination with the engine bay. I believe the wrx has the same thing, it butts up right to the dimensions of the scoop to make sure that engine pressure from the front grills doesn't reduce the air to cool the IC by pushing back on it.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:49 AM   #86
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alot of the times the vents and scoops are useless and just for looks...stupid...but it would keep the engine bay that little bit cooler...
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Old 12-12-2007, 09:26 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Smikey View Post
Getting a bit out of control...

For the record though, in my mind, a scoop implies that is an intake (e.g. icecream scoop, somethin which takes something), and a vent implies that it is an exhaust (vent anger etc.) But that's not to say that a there shouldn't be specific mention of whether a vent is an intake or and exhaust.

In the article on fl, he describes his cosworth lower vents as well as the bonnet vents, but you'd only think that the front bumpers are intake and the bonnet, exhaust 'vents'. Though because of the amount of air comin in through his vents it made his bonnet scoop is an exhaust 'vent'... it should have pointed towards his windshield because of the vacuum he calculated. When you think about it, a WRX style 'scoop', is supposed to be an intake vent, with a scoop ontop (to catch more air via surface area), i.e. sticking out of the flat surface.

A front grill can be described as an intake vent, or a bumper scoop the bodywork tapers outwards? whichever way you look at it, they provide ventilation, there is no doubt that the more holes you have in your bonnet, you'll probably have lower engine bay temps. The angle and height and way you cut these vents/scoops/holes/grills whatever! will impact the amount of water that comes into the engine bay... an upwards opened 'vent' will have gravity working against it to pull in water, but why they are pointed rearwards so the airflow tends to pull hot engine bay air away, and water over them (and why some have water catching trays?). cai piping from lower points angled upwards towards their intakes (pod/airfilter) will keep heavier particles like water away from higher points with only airflow pushing it upwards against gravity. As for bonnet scoops ala wrx, or bonnet vents, personally i'd prefer none...

i think that's my point... haha
hope we can agree on most of that


btw. i think the fl test is a little flawed in that he did a fairly ghetto aerodynamics test of high and low pressure, but not really convinced as to what cold/hot air was going in/out (i think he was unsure as well). Lots of airflow, and interesting writeup tho. Stick it in a windtunnel and put parafin gas streams over it
why is it that when you give your opinion its fine, but my opinion gets flamed even though they are almost identical?
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Old 12-12-2007, 10:09 AM   #88
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I think because i summarised everything into one post without reference to anything outside of this thread so it didn't sometimes sound like i was contradicting myself or reading contradicting statements one after the other.

I spent more time on that post than i'd like to admit, but i chose my words very carefully.

I'm sure we're all on the same page though, just a bit hard to communicate it sometimes.
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Old 12-12-2007, 08:16 PM   #89
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Old 22-12-2007, 03:43 AM   #90
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hey guys....before i changed my rims i could feel a fair bit of torque, esp wen i suddenly step on the accelrator i would get a lil hit of G-force....but now with my new rims i think their alot heavier coz im not feeling anything at all...i mean the pick up is good and performance is good....but i can barley FEEL the car accelerating...wats going on...what can i mod to increase torque?? bsides turbo...
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Old 22-12-2007, 04:09 AM   #91
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hey guys....before i changed my rims i could feel a fair bit of torque, esp wen i suddenly step on the accelrator i would get a lil hit of G-force....but now with my new rims i think their alot heavier coz im not feeling anything at all...i mean the pick up is good and performance is good....but i can barley FEEL the car accelerating...wats going on...what can i mod to increase torque?? bsides turbo...
header tuned for torque instead of power (generally implying long runners)
increased timing
adjustment of/control of fueling (stock maps, in general, err on the side of caution and run rich at WOT as a preventative measure against detonation, however this does not provide optimal power/torque - with good fuel and control over your fueling you can see substantial gains out of most engines)
Exhaust system designed to have peak flow at a lower point in the rev range (this will make outright power suffer but will make the car feel punchier if done correctly)


some may suggest leads, plugs and a grounding kit but i doubt you'd "feel" the improvement from those.

other things you can do to help give you the sensation of more go would be a light weight pulley kit (esp. an under driven crank pulley) and/or a light weight flywheel. Whilst the actual gain may be minimal, the engine will rev faster as it does not need to exert as much energy spinning a heavy flywheel and heavy pulleys.....instead the power can be put to better use turning your wheels.

You could also get adjustable cam gears (although without remapping i'm honestly unsure how a stock ECU would handle such a modification) and use them to bring the power curve down in the rev range and/or broaden the power curve.

Reground cams designed specifically to improve torque/response would be another way to go.



plenty of things you can try instead of turbo charging....although a turbo will give you the best "bang for buck" at the end of the day.
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Old 22-12-2007, 09:51 AM   #92
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are the wheels and tires bigger in diameter?
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Old 22-12-2007, 11:49 AM   #93
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you could always n2o now that's the best bang for buck! that way you only use it when you need it (just hide it good)
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Old 22-12-2007, 11:58 AM   #94
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no their not bigger in diameter...same rotation circumference ...juss heavier coz of the alloy
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Old 22-12-2007, 10:48 PM   #95
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ohhh okay. are they wider? or the same.
have you done all the breathing mods yet matey?
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Old 23-12-2007, 02:58 AM   #96
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well they were standard 14's now their 17's....n i've got a prototype CAI atm...juss needs better sealing and tidying up...n a K&N pod filter....wat other breathing methods r there??
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Old 23-12-2007, 02:59 AM   #97
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n i put in a 2 1/4 inch cannon...but with a 2inch catback...
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Old 23-12-2007, 08:53 AM   #98
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for 323 racer:-
2" exhaust and 2.25" canon will kill some lower and mid range torque.
also bigger diameter and wider wheels are heavier and more grippy, offering more resistance to forward movement.

things to overcome this are...
replace the standard headers with a high flow set, and the cat with a high flow jobley.
get rid of the canon for something with less flow, (will decrease 5000rpm+ power but gain 3000-5000rpm torque.)
and get a high flow pod filter installed asap.
advance the timing 2 degrees.
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Old 23-12-2007, 05:59 PM   #99
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with the advanced timing be prepared to run 95-98ron fuel too.
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Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

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Old 23-12-2007, 06:00 PM   #100
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with the advanced timing be prepared to run 95-98ron fuel too.
oops yeah that too, but thats a good 5% power increase just by using better fuels...
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