Having a spark issue :/ - Page 4

Ben · 18-11-2011, 03:38 PM

Yes indeedly i detached it.

Car is currently at the mechanic. o2 sensor is being replaced. Also getting him to check the knock sensor (Replace if dodgy), any kind of vacuum leak, faulty wires anywhere regarding sensors/fuel pump. Also getting him to check if the coils are ok and not faulty (Even though they were replaced)

Mechanic said "Fuel pump should be fine, since it hasn't actually died, normally they don't give warning" So it's not getting replaced. If it still does it after the sensors are changed, it will be the next thing on the list.

SLY 323 · 18-11-2011, 03:44 PM

Let's just see what happens once the 02 sensor is replaced. Pretty common issue for some cars misfiring these days.

TheMAN · 18-11-2011, 04:29 PM

I've seen weak "working" fuel pumps myself... so I recommend testing the fuel pressure and making sure it's within specs for all RPMs

Ben · 18-11-2011, 07:39 PM

So i got my car back about a hour ago. He didn't replace the o2 sensor since it didn't come. So its re-booked again for monday. Although while he was obviously pondering around with my list. He found that there was oil in number 2 spark plug hole. Now, clearly this was causing the epic malfunction with the spitting.

The o2 sensors still need replacing since they have "High resistance" which is causing the slight spit at traffic lights etc. (Like i said, it feels like your turning the air con on, but 10 times harder)

SOOO, long story short. Car is working fine and not coughing under pressure, however still having a spit at low revs. Oil has been removed from spark plugs, new spark plugs are in. Clearly it has a leak in a gasket (Obviously very slow leak) and will need to get that fixed. BUT, its currently working

He quoted me $64 for the rocker cover gasket + few hours labour. I will get it looked at when the o2's are changed.

Oh also, my air intake pipe is perishing, So cold air intake time :P

Oh also again! Marc, the knock sensor is fine.

Oh also again again! (I really need to stop thinking of things) Fuel pump is working fine and there seems to be no sign of a vacumme leak.

maztech · 18-11-2011, 08:44 PM

So other things involved , I am still not convinced that the O2 sensor is faulty .
What sort of condition is the exhaust and cat converter in?
How long did the car missfire for before anything was done ?

Ben · 19-11-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maztech

So other things involved , I am still not convinced that the O2 sensor is faulty .
What sort of condition is the exhaust and cat converter in?
How long did the car missfire for before anything was done ?

Yes, other things involved! I dont know how my mechanic can actually miss seing oil in the spark plug holes. Far out.

o2 is defiantly faulty, same codes re-appeared after they cleared it last time. The car is currently running fine (with no oil in its spark plugs funnily enough) Just has random spits at low revs now (Thats apparently the o2 sensors)

Exhaust, it seems to be in decent order. It's not a el-cheapo. No kind of physical fault in it.

Originally my coils blew. They were replaced, car ran fine... 2 months later a spit came. It was in the mechanic the next day. Mechanic changed dirty fuel filter, spark plugs and leads. Spit was gone. Another month later, spit came back (2 weeks ago this was) I was literally driving past my mechanic, so i called in. Went for a drive, no faults (didn't do it) drove it around for another week. BAM! Epic fail, I posted this, next day it was in Mazda. They didn't do anything but tell me the o2 sensor needed changing, come back when it happens again so we can rectify and see if its the same codes...Thursday this week, it came back again. Today it was back at the mechanic where tada this all happened. It doesn't spit constantly, its very intermittent. Thats the news, you're up to date.

I'm really just hoping its the o2 sensors & this oil leak... Or i'm really tempted to drive it off a cliff.

Clean_Cookie · 19-11-2011, 01:13 AM

I've got a reliable BA here which will be up for sale cheap?

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 09:09 AM

what is the o2 code do you know? p----?

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 09:11 AM

sorry didn't see other post with codes

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 09:26 AM

did you get genuine or after market coils? have been cought with **** after market coils before. get your mechanic to do a coil output test. i use an adjustable coil output tester at work, if one is faulty it will show straight away. a standard spark tester will not show a fault you need to have the gap out to about 4cm to load the arse out of the coil.

maztech · 19-11-2011, 09:43 AM

Ben has your mechanic put your car on a scope to view the O2 sensor patters ,if not you will not know if it is a sensor / cat / or other problem and you will be guessing and spending more money .

Ben · 19-11-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc3_racer_001

I've got a reliable BA here which will be up for sale cheap?

haha....no

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoomzoomsp

did you get genuine or after market coils? have been cought with **** after market coils before. get your mechanic to do a coil output test. i use an adjustable coil output tester at work, if one is faulty it will show straight away. a standard spark tester will not show a fault you need to have the gap out to about 4cm to load the arse out of the coil.

I got aftermarket, I have asked him to check them and he seems to think they are fine...

Quote:

Originally Posted by maztech

Ben has your mechanic put your car on a scope to view the O2 sensor patters ,if not you will not know if it is a sensor / cat / or other problem and you will be guessing and spending more money .

I'm not sure, he retrieved all the codes and told me that they have a "high resistance"...

So my next question is, where's a "good" mechanic, someone that will fix it, tell me everything that's wrong and not "guess" and won't charge me a fortune? I'm willing to drive to Brisbane...

maztech · 19-11-2011, 12:57 PM

Told ya I will have a look if ya want me 2

TheMAN · 19-11-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maztech

Ben has your mechanic put your car on a scope to view the O2 sensor patters ,if not you will not know if it is a sensor / cat / or other problem and you will be guessing and spending more money .

agreed... and at the very least, checking the O2 output voltage is a start...
remember the P0038 code? it's just a heater malfunction, so the ECU at least doesn't think there is a fault in the sensing oxygen though

I really want to know what was done to determine whether the coils and fuel pump are "good" or not... without knowing what exactly was done to determine this, it could be anywhere between guessing and using proper tools to check those things

Ben · 19-11-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maztech

Told ya I will have a look if ya want me 2

Where are you located? PM if you wish.

Ben · 19-11-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMAN

agreed... and at the very least, checking the O2 output voltage is a start...
remember the P0038 code? it's just a heater malfunction, so the ECU at least doesn't think there is a fault in the sensing oxygen though

I really want to know what was done to determine whether the coils and fuel pump are "good" or not... without knowing what exactly was done to determine this, it could be anywhere between guessing and using proper tools to check those things

The fuel pump has been tested, a vacumme leak test has also been done. None came back with a problem. Only problems that have came back is and i quote

"Fault codes found indicate faulty oxygen sensors. Test o2 sensors, both have high resistance and both need to be replaced. No 2 spark plug tube has oil in it. This causes misfire. Rocker cover gasket needs to be replaced. Excess oil may have already damaged the lead and coil. but will not know until oil leak is repaired. Air intake pipe is also starting to perish + replace soon. Oil has been removed from no 2 spark plug tube, car is running without misfire"

Now i replaced the coil and leads already, so hopefully the new ones aren't damaged.

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 02:34 PM

a p0038 code will not make the car missfire. as it is sensor 2 (after cat sensor) the only purpose of a sensor 2 o2 sensor is to monitor the opperation of the cat... it does not affect fuel trim or control in any way.

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 02:40 PM

if you can find a mechanic with a good scan tool, (we use snap-on) you can bridge the fuel pump fuse and injection fuse with a sutible fused wire and attach a low amps clamp to the wire and check in the scope section of the scanner for spark/injector/fuel pumpetc curreent draws and amp ramp patterns to determan faulty components e.g. coils fuel pumps fuel injectors... also what ron fuel are you using?

Ben · 19-11-2011, 02:44 PM

Missfire is most likely just from the oil leak then. Should i still be replacing the o2 sensors, since they have "high resistance"

I only use 98 ever since i got the fuel filter replaced.

zoomzoomsp · 19-11-2011, 02:54 PM

you can test the heater opperation of the o2 sensor YOU MUST DICONNECT THE SENSOR!!!!!!!!! if you short the sensor out you can blow the computer. if you have a look at the sensor. not the one in the manifold that is sensor 1. see how many wires it has e.g. 3 wire 4 wire. you can go to a bosch web sight i think it is, and cross referance the wires on the sensor some cars have 2 black 1 blue 1 green or 2 white 1 blue 1 black. find what colour you have and check online usually the 2 same coloured wires are the heater circuit. with the sensor DISCONNECTED check for 12v at the sensor heater wire from the computer with the ignition on,use a multimeter not a test light and use the o2 sensor earth if you have 12v and a good earth at the connector (print out wiring and take it with you to the car check twice test once...)replace the sensor.

18-11-2011, 03:44 PM	#62
SLY 323 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Wollongong Car: 95' Mazda BA 323 Posts: 747	Let's just see what happens once the 02 sensor is replaced. Pretty common issue for some cars misfiring these days. __________________ Too many Mazdas. ♡

18-11-2011, 04:29 PM	#63
TheMAN Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: USA Car: . Posts: 2,623	I've seen weak "working" fuel pumps myself... so I recommend testing the fuel pressure and making sure it's within specs for all RPMs __________________ Protege FAQ, the best 323/Protege/Mazda3 resource enjoyed worldwide for 10 years

18-11-2011, 07:39 PM	#64
Ben Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sunshine Coast Car: MPS Posts: 1,939	So i got my car back about a hour ago. He didn't replace the o2 sensor since it didn't come. So its re-booked again for monday. Although while he was obviously pondering around with my list. He found that there was oil in number 2 spark plug hole. Now, clearly this was causing the epic malfunction with the spitting. The o2 sensors still need replacing since they have "High resistance" which is causing the slight spit at traffic lights etc. (Like i said, it feels like your turning the air con on, but 10 times harder) SOOO, long story short. Car is working fine and not coughing under pressure, however still having a spit at low revs. Oil has been removed from spark plugs, new spark plugs are in. Clearly it has a leak in a gasket (Obviously very slow leak) and will need to get that fixed. BUT, its currently working He quoted me $64 for the rocker cover gasket + few hours labour. I will get it looked at when the o2's are changed. Oh also, my air intake pipe is perishing, So cold air intake time :P Oh also again! Marc, the knock sensor is fine. Oh also again again! (I really need to stop thinking of things) Fuel pump is working fine and there seems to be no sign of a vacumme leak. Last edited by Ben; 18-11-2011 at 07:44 PM.

19-11-2011, 01:13 AM	#67
Clean_Cookie obsessed-incomplete-broke Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Brisbane Car: BA Hardtop/Hatch Posts: 5,441	I've got a reliable BA here which will be up for sale cheap? __________________ Worklog

18-11-2011, 03:38 PM	#61
Ben Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sunshine Coast Car: MPS Posts: 1,939	Yes indeedly i detached it. Car is currently at the mechanic. o2 sensor is being replaced. Also getting him to check the knock sensor (Replace if dodgy), any kind of vacuum leak, faulty wires anywhere regarding sensors/fuel pump. Also getting him to check if the coils are ok and not faulty (Even though they were replaced) Mechanic said "Fuel pump should be fine, since it hasn't actually died, normally they don't give warning" So it's not getting replaced. If it still does it after the sensors are changed, it will be the next thing on the list.

18-11-2011, 08:44 PM	#65
maztech Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: QLD Car: ...... Posts: 952	So other things involved , I am still not convinced that the O2 sensor is faulty . What sort of condition is the exhaust and cat converter in? How long did the car missfire for before anything was done ?

19-11-2011, 09:09 AM	#68
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	what is the o2 code do you know? p----?

19-11-2011, 09:11 AM	#69
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	sorry didn't see other post with codes

19-11-2011, 09:26 AM	#70
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	did you get genuine or after market coils? have been cought with **** after market coils before. get your mechanic to do a coil output test. i use an adjustable coil output tester at work, if one is faulty it will show straight away. a standard spark tester will not show a fault you need to have the gap out to about 4cm to load the arse out of the coil.

19-11-2011, 09:43 AM	#71
maztech Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: QLD Car: ...... Posts: 952	Ben has your mechanic put your car on a scope to view the O2 sensor patters ,if not you will not know if it is a sensor / cat / or other problem and you will be guessing and spending more money .

19-11-2011, 12:57 PM	#73
maztech Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: QLD Car: ...... Posts: 952	Told ya I will have a look if ya want me 2

19-11-2011, 02:34 PM	#77
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	a p0038 code will not make the car missfire. as it is sensor 2 (after cat sensor) the only purpose of a sensor 2 o2 sensor is to monitor the opperation of the cat... it does not affect fuel trim or control in any way.

19-11-2011, 02:40 PM	#78
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	if you can find a mechanic with a good scan tool, (we use snap-on) you can bridge the fuel pump fuse and injection fuse with a sutible fused wire and attach a low amps clamp to the wire and check in the scope section of the scanner for spark/injector/fuel pumpetc curreent draws and amp ramp patterns to determan faulty components e.g. coils fuel pumps fuel injectors... also what ron fuel are you using?

19-11-2011, 02:44 PM	#79
Ben Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Sunshine Coast Car: MPS Posts: 1,939	Missfire is most likely just from the oil leak then. Should i still be replacing the o2 sensors, since they have "high resistance" I only use 98 ever since i got the fuel filter replaced.

19-11-2011, 02:54 PM	#80
zoomzoomsp Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Seven hills Car: 2003 sp20 protege Posts: 12 View Photos By: zoomzoomsp	you can test the heater opperation of the o2 sensor YOU MUST DICONNECT THE SENSOR!!!!!!!!! if you short the sensor out you can blow the computer. if you have a look at the sensor. not the one in the manifold that is sensor 1. see how many wires it has e.g. 3 wire 4 wire. you can go to a bosch web sight i think it is, and cross referance the wires on the sensor some cars have 2 black 1 blue 1 green or 2 white 1 blue 1 black. find what colour you have and check online usually the 2 same coloured wires are the heater circuit. with the sensor DISCONNECTED check for 12v at the sensor heater wire from the computer with the ignition on,use a multimeter not a test light and use the o2 sensor earth if you have 12v and a good earth at the connector (print out wiring and take it with you to the car check twice test once...)replace the sensor.