new microtech thread - Page 4

chicaboo · 03-09-2005, 09:34 PM

113whp? Dyno sheet shows 115.Xwhp (85kW atw) if it's accurate. All my gains were above 5500rpm though, so now the car is stronger than stock in every possible area by a large margain. No difference to it down low where I regulary drive (just rougher), but up top it just peaks at 6500rpm now.
Today I was shifting at 6000rpm, not used to going past that damn red thing on the dial! But I'm a little dissappointed I didn't pick up power down low, but that's how it goes. It feels like it needs more refining, on the highway it seems vaguely better, but I notice it in 1st and 2nd, and 3rd...
Have problems with the stock ECU not switching on all the time, so I need to find whats wrong there and then tidy up all my wiring when I know what's wrong...

Gav.

coldie123 · 03-09-2005, 10:27 PM

good numbers guys. so does it feel like a 15-20kw gain from stock ecu?
and how long did it they tune for? hopefully more fine tuning will give even better results.
i'm hoping to get back the low range torque that i've lost with intake/exhaust, as well as getting good gains up top.

chicaboo · 03-09-2005, 10:46 PM

Hey Coldie,

I gained up to 15whp over 5000rpm, Andrew can't be sure what he's gained until he gets a dyno at Mercury in Shoot 4. Dyson are saying he's got 135whp, but I suspect the Mercury dyno will say 140-145whp. Andrew needs to dial in his cam gears still too.
I gained nothing at low revs, but I already gained power with the OBX header at low and midling revs, so it was never a problem for me. My powercurve takes a very straight line to 6000rpm, so I don't have much sensation of accelleration...

Gav.

coldie123 · 03-09-2005, 11:27 PM

Hey Gav,
Smooth powercurve is good. So are you happy overall with the results?

chicaboo · 04-09-2005, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coldie123

Hey Gav,
Smooth powercurve is good. So are you happy overall with the results?

Yes and no. I have some phantom issues that are hard to track down, the stock ECU needs to run so the altenator charges the battery and the tacho works. My stock ECU can't decide if it wants to work or not. And I'm annoyed about how much we paid for a 30 minute tune on the dyno too, and there's some more scope for it to run better. I still have issues with cold starts, which wasn't part of the dyno tune.
An extra 13-15whp isn't too bad though, and the car has the same amount of go from idle to redline now, so the Microtech gives the top end power that the OBX can't. Still, where I drive the car daily there is no change...
I'm not overly satisfied with the results, but there have been problems, and it's not been a smooth transition in the last 2 weeks. I'm sure there'll come a day soon when these bug-bears are no more and I can get on with enjoying the car.

Dogo · 04-09-2005, 08:11 AM

chickaboo when the stock ecu is not connected, does the charge indicator still flash up momentarily when turn the car on, as normal ?
( Most cars get a few come on when the key is in the on pos but the engine isnt running yet )

It does sound to me that the stock ecu either provides power or triggers power to your instrument cluster. The tacho especially usually comes out of the ecu and into the cluster, if the microtech doesnt do this then you'll need to tap into the ground from the ignotor or coil, i cant remember which.
( I know the wolf3d has a 'tacho out' pin but no idea abt MT )

that charge indicator also is often an outgoing signal from the cluster , which goes to the voltage regulator in the alternator. Maybe it switches the regulator on and off to avoid trying to charge when the engine isnt on. ( Maybe as a safety mechanism for mechanics even ? )

( by 'outgoing signal' I mean the flow goes from battery +ve --> cluster ( and that battery light ) --> alternator --> ground )

chicaboo · 04-09-2005, 08:51 AM

Hey Dogo, from memory when the stock ECU is not connected, we have a CEL only, no tacho, but still fuel gauge and speedo. Biggest problem is the alternator isn't working then. But with the stock ECU connected, we have only a battery light. I haven't check the Mazdas user manual to see what the battery light means, ie: low or excessive volts...

Dogo · 04-09-2005, 09:09 AM

have u got a mazda wiring diagram ?

chicaboo · 04-09-2005, 09:17 AM

No, but Andrew might, I'm going to try and download the workshop manual now.
If you're keen, here is the workshop manual for the BJ: http://protege5.ugly.net/

EDIT: the USDM cars have slightly different wiring in places, but the instrument cluster should be identical, since all the beep removal how-to's work for us, etc...

Dogo · 04-09-2005, 10:41 AM

i love workshop manuals.
Call me wierd but I find them really interesting.

downloading now

coldie123 · 04-09-2005, 10:50 AM

gav, so are you saying that sometimes the stock ecu doesn't work and the tacho/alternator doesn't work? thats sounds strange - could it be a bad wiring connection/grouding somewhere?

yeah i wouldn't think that 30mins would be enough to get a good tune, especially working from the MT base maps. i'm hoping theres a good bit of potential left.

btw i have a copy of the mazda wiring diagram for the 2002+ Protege5, its a 7mb file, so let me know if u want it. i haven't had time to look through it in detail yet, but it seems to have everything u'll need.

Dogo · 04-09-2005, 11:04 AM

hey the instrumentation download ( 09-22 ) shows the generator warning light coming from A in a circle - maybe Alternator ? It then goes to the PCM which would be the stock ecu.

The ECT coming off the left of the PCM will be the Engine Coolant Temp sensor - is that working ?

and the other wire from the ecu is 3B which might be tacho signal. I dont see any signal from the ignitor so Im guessing this car outputs the tacho signal from ECU.
Ah yeh looking at the ignition page now , that does make sense.

According to the PCM wiring diagram in 01-40(a/b) the generator has 2 wires to the PCM as well as the generator warning light to the PCM.
You might be able to just ground the 30 and 53 wires but I dont know enough to say for sure.

chicaboo · 04-09-2005, 11:20 AM

Your theories sound good Dogo, the water temp has been cut since it conflicts with the MT (signals multiply out). So it sounds like if we fix the water temp the alternator/battery light won't be an issue anymore too. Let me know if I got that right. But if we want, we can ground the alternator/battery wire to get rid of the warning light too.
Yeah, the tacho works while ECU is plugged in. Would it be possible do you think to remove the stock ECU, and do something with the alternator wires and send a tacho signal to the instrument cluster? The Microtech has a tacho output, which we've not used.

Coldie: I'm the only person having a problem with the stock ECU, if you follow Andrew's revised CKS connection you won't have any problems.

platypus · 04-09-2005, 11:32 AM

http://www.floptical.net/mazda/ is a good one too

there is also a parts list on there too

well done dogo!

Astro Boy · 04-09-2005, 03:40 PM

Hey guys, a little of topic, but who do you guys recommend to tune haltech??? I know plently of good mechanics, but i've never had to play with aftermarket managment before so i've got no idea who's a good tuner???

I'm looking pretty close to what twiggy's got, we're fairly confident of about 140+ whp in the new toy come the beginning of next year's season... The guy who owned the car used Chiptourque but i'd like to know what other options are avaliable?

Thanks...

twilightprotege · 04-09-2005, 09:06 PM

PITS on the GC have a good rep, and there is a guy at hervey bay that only does private work. used to work for haltech (i think) and has recently been offered big salary to work for motec but is desiding his future (last i heard).

dogo - there are two alternators made for recent mazdas. one has an LS classification and one has PD. our cars have the LS and require the stock ecu to work. PD's dont require it (aka BG's and BA's).

gav - when the stock ecu isnt connected you have the key light on. no CEL. and we dont use the MT tach output as it'll fry the stock cluster (apparently)

QuicKSilveR · 06-09-2005, 10:10 AM

Matty Sprie @ PITS Performance is really good and does Haltech, Microtech, Motec etc. He is a qualified Elec. Technitian.

I'm giving Ben @ Hardcore Performance a Go on Thursday Morning. Cancelled my booking with Archie @ Mazfix (does not take enough time tuning)

Got a New Sti Ball Bearing VF22 Turbo and 3" Stainless Exhaust to work with

Going to tune it for 18psi.

Sounds like everyone else is up and running.

As for the Dyson Rotary Dyno, I heard it Read Higher. If anyone goes to Matty Sprie - his reads real low. Its impossible to judge accross dynos.

chicaboo · 06-09-2005, 11:39 AM

Dyson's dyno appears to read lower than Mercury's. Dyson only spent around 30-40 minutes on each car, and the tune was only worth about half what he charged. Oh well, you live and you learn.

Astro Boy · 06-09-2005, 08:59 PM

Ok, i'm thinking pits! Anyways, i'll do some more investigation before i let anyone play with the new toy... but wot is everyone's opinion of chiptourque??? Its probably gonna be over 90kw N/A specific so i can't afford to have dickheads tune it at this kinda tolerances...

chicaboo · 06-09-2005, 09:42 PM

I get the impression that Chiptorque went a little conservative on Anton's Microtech, but they made it smooth and it's probably dependable on hot days and running on regular PULP?

04-09-2005, 08:11 AM	#66
Dogo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melb, Aus Car: Mazda 323 BA BPT transplant Posts: 3,459 View Photos By: Dogo	chickaboo when the stock ecu is not connected, does the charge indicator still flash up momentarily when turn the car on, as normal ? ( Most cars get a few come on when the key is in the on pos but the engine isnt running yet ) It does sound to me that the stock ecu either provides power or triggers power to your instrument cluster. The tacho especially usually comes out of the ecu and into the cluster, if the microtech doesnt do this then you'll need to tap into the ground from the ignotor or coil, i cant remember which. ( I know the wolf3d has a 'tacho out' pin but no idea abt MT ) that charge indicator also is often an outgoing signal from the cluster , which goes to the voltage regulator in the alternator. Maybe it switches the regulator on and off to avoid trying to charge when the engine isnt on. ( Maybe as a safety mechanism for mechanics even ? ) ( by 'outgoing signal' I mean the flow goes from battery +ve --> cluster ( and that battery light ) --> alternator --> ground ) __________________ [ Turbo BA ] see my readers ride Last edited by Dogo; 04-09-2005 at 08:16 AM.

04-09-2005, 09:09 AM	#68
Dogo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melb, Aus Car: Mazda 323 BA BPT transplant Posts: 3,459 View Photos By: Dogo	have u got a mazda wiring diagram ? __________________ [ Turbo BA ] see my readers ride

04-09-2005, 10:41 AM	#70
Dogo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melb, Aus Car: Mazda 323 BA BPT transplant Posts: 3,459 View Photos By: Dogo	i love workshop manuals. Call me wierd but I find them really interesting. downloading now __________________ [ Turbo BA ] see my readers ride

04-09-2005, 11:04 AM	#72
Dogo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Melb, Aus Car: Mazda 323 BA BPT transplant Posts: 3,459 View Photos By: Dogo	hey the instrumentation download ( 09-22 ) shows the generator warning light coming from A in a circle - maybe Alternator ? It then goes to the PCM which would be the stock ecu. The ECT coming off the left of the PCM will be the Engine Coolant Temp sensor - is that working ? and the other wire from the ecu is 3B which might be tacho signal. I dont see any signal from the ignitor so Im guessing this car outputs the tacho signal from ECU. Ah yeh looking at the ignition page now , that does make sense. According to the PCM wiring diagram in 01-40(a/b) the generator has 2 wires to the PCM as well as the generator warning light to the PCM. You might be able to just ground the 30 and 53 wires but I dont know enough to say for sure. __________________ [ Turbo BA ] see my readers ride

04-09-2005, 11:32 AM	#74
platypus living in the past man Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newcastle, NSW Car: Subaru Outback 2.0 turbo Posts: 4,707	http://www.floptical.net/mazda/ is a good one too there is also a parts list on there too well done dogo! __________________ 1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost...

03-09-2005, 09:34 PM	#61
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	113whp? Dyno sheet shows 115.Xwhp (85kW atw) if it's accurate. All my gains were above 5500rpm though, so now the car is stronger than stock in every possible area by a large margain. No difference to it down low where I regulary drive (just rougher), but up top it just peaks at 6500rpm now. Today I was shifting at 6000rpm, not used to going past that damn red thing on the dial! But I'm a little dissappointed I didn't pick up power down low, but that's how it goes. It feels like it needs more refining, on the highway it seems vaguely better, but I notice it in 1st and 2nd, and 3rd... Have problems with the stock ECU not switching on all the time, so I need to find whats wrong there and then tidy up all my wiring when I know what's wrong... Gav.

03-09-2005, 10:27 PM	#62
coldie123 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sydney Car: . Posts: 78	good numbers guys. so does it feel like a 15-20kw gain from stock ecu? and how long did it they tune for? hopefully more fine tuning will give even better results. i'm hoping to get back the low range torque that i've lost with intake/exhaust, as well as getting good gains up top.

03-09-2005, 10:46 PM	#63
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Hey Coldie, I gained up to 15whp over 5000rpm, Andrew can't be sure what he's gained until he gets a dyno at Mercury in Shoot 4. Dyson are saying he's got 135whp, but I suspect the Mercury dyno will say 140-145whp. Andrew needs to dial in his cam gears still too. I gained nothing at low revs, but I already gained power with the OBX header at low and midling revs, so it was never a problem for me. My powercurve takes a very straight line to 6000rpm, so I don't have much sensation of accelleration... Gav.

03-09-2005, 11:27 PM	#64
coldie123 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sydney Car: . Posts: 78	Hey Gav, Smooth powercurve is good. So are you happy overall with the results?

04-09-2005, 08:51 AM	#67
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Hey Dogo, from memory when the stock ECU is not connected, we have a CEL only, no tacho, but still fuel gauge and speedo. Biggest problem is the alternator isn't working then. But with the stock ECU connected, we have only a battery light. I haven't check the Mazdas user manual to see what the battery light means, ie: low or excessive volts...

04-09-2005, 09:17 AM	#69
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	No, but Andrew might, I'm going to try and download the workshop manual now. If you're keen, here is the workshop manual for the BJ: http://protege5.ugly.net/ EDIT: the USDM cars have slightly different wiring in places, but the instrument cluster should be identical, since all the beep removal how-to's work for us, etc...

04-09-2005, 10:50 AM	#71
coldie123 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Sydney Car: . Posts: 78	gav, so are you saying that sometimes the stock ecu doesn't work and the tacho/alternator doesn't work? thats sounds strange - could it be a bad wiring connection/grouding somewhere? yeah i wouldn't think that 30mins would be enough to get a good tune, especially working from the MT base maps. i'm hoping theres a good bit of potential left. btw i have a copy of the mazda wiring diagram for the 2002+ Protege5, its a 7mb file, so let me know if u want it. i haven't had time to look through it in detail yet, but it seems to have everything u'll need.

04-09-2005, 11:20 AM	#73
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Your theories sound good Dogo, the water temp has been cut since it conflicts with the MT (signals multiply out). So it sounds like if we fix the water temp the alternator/battery light won't be an issue anymore too. Let me know if I got that right. But if we want, we can ground the alternator/battery wire to get rid of the warning light too. Yeah, the tacho works while ECU is plugged in. Would it be possible do you think to remove the stock ECU, and do something with the alternator wires and send a tacho signal to the instrument cluster? The Microtech has a tacho output, which we've not used. Coldie: I'm the only person having a problem with the stock ECU, if you follow Andrew's revised CKS connection you won't have any problems.

04-09-2005, 03:40 PM	#75
Astro Boy GSL RallySport Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brendale QLD!!! Car: Cross 6 Posts: 1,835	Hey guys, a little of topic, but who do you guys recommend to tune haltech??? I know plently of good mechanics, but i've never had to play with aftermarket managment before so i've got no idea who's a good tuner??? I'm looking pretty close to what twiggy's got, we're fairly confident of about 140+ whp in the new toy come the beginning of next year's season... The guy who owned the car used Chiptourque but i'd like to know what other options are avaliable? Thanks... __________________ - GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 - Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers -

04-09-2005, 09:06 PM	#76
twilightprotege Driving a faster car now! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Work, always at bloody work... Car: Lotus ....... . Posts: 5,217 View Photos By: twilightprotege	PITS on the GC have a good rep, and there is a guy at hervey bay that only does private work. used to work for haltech (i think) and has recently been offered big salary to work for motec but is desiding his future (last i heard). dogo - there are two alternators made for recent mazdas. one has an LS classification and one has PD. our cars have the LS and require the stock ecu to work. PD's dont require it (aka BG's and BA's). gav - when the stock ecu isnt connected you have the key light on. no CEL. and we dont use the MT tach output as it'll fry the stock cluster (apparently)

06-09-2005, 10:10 AM	#77
QuicKSilveR AstinaGT Regular Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Brisbane Car: '01 Nissan Silvia s15 (Ex Ford Laser TX3 Turbo FAN74) Posts: 343 View Photos By: QuicKSilveR	Matty Sprie @ PITS Performance is really good and does Haltech, Microtech, Motec etc. He is a qualified Elec. Technitian. I'm giving Ben @ Hardcore Performance a Go on Thursday Morning. Cancelled my booking with Archie @ Mazfix (does not take enough time tuning) Got a New Sti Ball Bearing VF22 Turbo and 3" Stainless Exhaust to work with Going to tune it for 18psi. Sounds like everyone else is up and running. As for the Dyson Rotary Dyno, I heard it Read Higher. If anyone goes to Matty Sprie - his reads real low. Its impossible to judge accross dynos. __________________ Mazda Fours :: Mazda Four Cylinder Performance Club http://www.mazdafours.com Last edited by QuicKSilveR; 06-09-2005 at 10:12 AM.

06-09-2005, 11:39 AM	#78
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	Dyson's dyno appears to read lower than Mercury's. Dyson only spent around 30-40 minutes on each car, and the tune was only worth about half what he charged. Oh well, you live and you learn.

06-09-2005, 08:59 PM	#79
Astro Boy GSL RallySport Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Brendale QLD!!! Car: Cross 6 Posts: 1,835	Ok, i'm thinking pits! Anyways, i'll do some more investigation before i let anyone play with the new toy... but wot is everyone's opinion of chiptourque??? Its probably gonna be over 90kw N/A specific so i can't afford to have dickheads tune it at this kinda tolerances... __________________ - GSL RallySport - Ph: 1300 884 836 - Sick of paying too much for high performance brake pads? Want high performance and cold bite with low rotor wear? - QFM Performance Brake Pads - Also specialising in - DMS High Performance Shock Absorbers - Monit Rally Computers -

06-09-2005, 09:42 PM	#80
chicaboo Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Logan prefecture Car: Touge monster Posts: 7,585	I get the impression that Chiptorque went a little conservative on Anton's Microtech, but they made it smooth and it's probably dependable on hot days and running on regular PULP?

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