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Old 26-02-2005, 02:09 AM   #1
deruss
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ABOUT: Origins of BPT motor

Ok, so I'm thinking more seriously about planting a BPT in my BA. But I have some holes in my knowledge about it all, starting with a very basic question...

Where do BP Turbo motors come from? So far I know of :
Jap - BG (Familia) GTR (154Kw) (also known as BPD ?)
Jap - Familia(BG) GTX (134Kw)
Aus - Laser KF-KH TX3 Turbo / TX3 4WD
Are there others?

Is the GTX motor equivilant to the TX3Turbo motor (other than the ECU)?

I know that the JSpec ECU is better than ASpec ECU, but do the GTX and GTR share same ECU?

Do all these cars come with factory intercooler? What size/s?

I see a few ppl have put in mx6 KLZE motor. Is this realistic only for astinas that came with KFZE? Was there an Aussie Astina with KFZE?

I'm thinking that if I can't find a halfcut at right price, maybe I can pick up all parts seperately. But I'm unsure of all parts I need. I know to pick up ECU + loom, and Air flow meter, but what else?

Sorry to ask so many questions in one post, but any help with this basic info would be great, thanks.
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Old 26-02-2005, 09:07 AM   #2
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the americans also get a 323 with the gtx. not sure if thats just a familia or something else.
but ive seen a lot of them on 323gtx.co.uk and mazda323performance.com

the japspec ecu is better but its not a huge gain. and you will ALWAYS have to use petrol with a high RON else you'll detonate. The jap ecu is designed for jap petrol which is 100 RON. 98 is as high as we get in aus.

they do come with a factory intercooler but if you're doing the upgrade dont bother with it, get a nive new big cooler. dont know the stock size buts its small.

gtx and gtr are different ecus. and the hang-ons are different too.

as well as the ecu and loom you'll need .. umm ... an engine.
presuming the engine comes with the usuals : injectors, rail, plenum, throttle, ex manifold & turbo etc etc.
not sure on flywheel and clutch...

definitely try to get a half-cut rather than just the engine.

and you'll need the original wiring diagrams and those for the new engine. there's some wire chopping involved to get the new engine in.

also try to get a new fuel pump but not vital.
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Old 26-02-2005, 09:36 AM   #3
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the americans got the turbo in the protege sedan. most definately buy a half cut ... as dogo said it will make wiring soooooo much easier ... plus the familia is awesome car except for one minor detail ... people love to kill the gearboxes making the market value in the $1000 - $1500 mark, so a $2500 half cut suddenly becomes $1000 $1500 making it a cheap proposition. Also you can be a bit more sure of the engines condition and k's when you get a half cut and ocassionly extra aftermarket goodies like gauges, sturt braces etc etc etc ... i even saw one last week that had coilovers!!! The GTR engine is very tasty but unless you want the boasting facture of having it go with the GTX ... spend the money you save by buying the GTX on mods and you will have a car that is seriously quicker than the GTR engine anyway! good luck,

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Old 26-02-2005, 10:04 AM   #4
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deruss, check your VIN is your car a BA11P1, P2 or P3?
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Old 26-02-2005, 12:14 PM   #5
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Nate, was it the one listed as part of this thread?
http://www.fordlaser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25799
Check out this ebay item:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW
Looks like a crowd in geelong bought it, then ebayed it same day, before the motor was even close to ozzie shores! No bids tho...

pr1mo, it's BA111P1

I have auto trans - anyone know if it will still line up, or will I need to do gearbox too? (I don't know much about the mechanics in that area. Yet.)
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Old 26-02-2005, 06:40 PM   #6
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Most of the above is good advice but you need to seriously think about what your overall plans are.

As far as I know, doing the conversion on an auto box is a waste of time. The autos simply cant handle the torque increase. Either sell and get a manual or do a manual conversion.

A halfcut is a relatively easy swap in swap out job and I would budget 5-6K to cover all costs.

If you plan on taking the car past the 'standard BPT conversion' then you dont need to start with a halfcut.

I would buy the following if doing it again:
- BPT Motor Only
- Microtech ECU
- Hybrid 600x300x75 FMIC
- HD clutch from Daikin
- Whatever accesories I want in addition (bov and boost gauge mainly)

That will probably bring you to around 3K roughly.

Take the car to a good speed shop with dyno facilities. You are probably looking at around 4-5K which should include:
- Intercooler Piping (roughly 800-1200 depending on what its done in)
- Dyno Tuning (good tuner will do it in a day so probably 3-4hrs on the dyno @~$100/hr)
- Remove/Replace of motor
- Hosing and clamps as required.
- Belts/Oils/Seals
- New Coil Pack.

The initial outlay is slightly higher but this will give you a much better base package to work with then the standard conversion. Changing things like turbo, boost, fuel, timing becomes alot easier and you will get maximum potential from the car and wont have annoying boost cut issues

Having said that, the standard ecu will provide you with a much more "stable" car. It wont have problems starting at different temps and your fuel consumption will be better. It will also adjust for the current conditions and has systems in place to prevent motor damage so think carefully about what you want from the car before choosing either path.

Selling parts off a halfcut is not as easy as some lead you to believe. The gearbox will not fetch 1000-1500. Youll be lucky to get 600-800 depending on condition (if someone is stupid enough to pay 1K+ then rock on for you). Ive got a garage full of GTX parts as I did the "buy halfcut sell what I can" method and I probably made back to the equivelent of buying the motor by itself. Familias are relatively rare in Oz and not a huge demand for parts. If you do go this route, contact the local rally guys as there are usually a few people running familias and they always want spare panels.

I bought the halfcut as it was the only option at the time. If you can get your hands on a good motor by itself, its a much easier option unless you want the hassle of fart arsing about selling parts. Also means less money required initially.

This is based on my own experiences/opinion and im sure others will disagree on parts.
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Old 26-02-2005, 07:41 PM   #7
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doing a conversion in victoria sucks because you cant change from the stock BPT ecu. unengineerable for the everyday person unfortunatley.
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Old 26-02-2005, 07:50 PM   #8
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Other problem is that the newest BPT engine you will find must be at least 11 years old. At that age you are dancing with the devil regards longevity.
Think about re-building the engine you have and adding a turbo to it. You will start with a fresh, purpose built engine.
If you're thinking about after market ECUs then ask your tuner what they recommend because they will get the best out of what they are familia with.
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Old 26-02-2005, 08:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deruss
Nate, was it the one listed as part of this thread?
http://www.fordlaser.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25799
Check out this ebay item:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=WDVW
Looks like a crowd in geelong bought it, then ebayed it same day, before the motor was even close to ozzie shores! No bids tho...

pr1mo, it's BA111P1

I have auto trans - anyone know if it will still line up, or will I need to do gearbox too? (I don't know much about the mechanics in that area. Yet.)
thats the one
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Old 26-02-2005, 08:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo Dude
Other problem is that the newest BPT engine you will find must be at least 11 years old. At that age you are dancing with the devil regards longevity.
Think about re-building the engine you have and adding a turbo to it. You will start with a fresh, purpose built engine.
If you're thinking about after market ECUs then ask your tuner what they recommend because they will get the best out of what they are familia with.
Out of interest are there many difference's between the stock engine and the BPT (aside from having a turbo hanging off it)? Such as head, cams, crank/rods/pistons, or is it a totally different engine?
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Old 27-02-2005, 01:51 AM   #11
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rod, i thought yuo could bring over what ever parts you want... oh wait. i'm slow tongiht.this morning

bah bed for james


turbos to existing engine?? bit dodgy since the non purpose engine your upping isn't set to a turbo setup
hows about the mx5 SE?? what engine is in that? (yes i don't care about the manifold issues - i'm trying to enquire on a newer engine)



and answer to original question: japan - its that easy
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Old 27-02-2005, 08:01 AM   #12
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Yes you could use the Mx-5 SE short motor with the Astina BP-05 head. You need the FWD head as that IS where the thermistat housing lives.
The turbo engines have stronger pistons, rods and crank. The BP-26 head has a restrictor in the intake ports, some people at FL.com have substituted the BP-05 with positive results.
Oh yeah, good luck finding a well priced Mx-5 turbo engine :lol:


The pic above shows Rupwrechts engine during rebuild, you can see where the thermistat housing is located on the head.
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Old 27-02-2005, 12:53 PM   #13
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damn thats complex - i didn't think the head would be so much of an issue.... more the problem of the manifolds.... oh well back to the drawing board for me
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Old 27-02-2005, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahb11m
damn thats complex - i didn't think the head would be so much of an issue.... more the problem of the manifolds.... oh well back to the drawing board for me
why do you think no one has done it before ???
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Old 28-02-2005, 07:13 PM   #15
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wow i'm amazed you you knew where to dig that pic up from!

this might be better tho

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Old 28-02-2005, 07:52 PM   #16
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It's rather easy on the new board. I went to performance, clicked thread starter, reverse order and went back to 'R' for Dan and found the thread. I was amazed that the pics were still there.
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Old 01-03-2005, 08:32 AM   #17
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hmm looks like an engine to me boys!
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Old 03-03-2005, 10:35 AM   #18
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The GTR Engine (BPD) is far more expensive (rare) for a half cut but you won't have to change your turbo, injectors or ECU. They will make 170kW at ALL 4 with just an intercooler, POD and Exhaust (Friends car).

The factory ECU has maps for up to 18psi, Big T3 size Turbo, Different Injectors, better flowing plenum and a few stronger internal bits

The BPT GTX and TX3 are exactly the same except for a Ford Tapper cover vs Mazda one. Big difference is just the ECU with the GTX tuned for Japanese Fuel - 134 kW vs 117 kW.
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Old 03-03-2005, 12:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JynX
lots of info about turbo options
I really have to stop visiting this section of the forums. I'll wind up blowing my house deposit on a turbo conversion.
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Old 04-03-2005, 12:13 PM   #20
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Glad to see we have finally put the thermostat is in the head and not the block
to bed. I would still recomend a GTX motor over doing up a N/A for cost effectiveness
but if you cant find one or if you prefer to do your N/A so as to use the BP05 head
etc will throw some prices of Bits I bought to take out some guesswork. I bought
a GTR intake manifold for $50 and also some B6T rods $60 which are large H beams.
Add $200 for some BPT injectors another $200 for a VJ20 and around $70 for a BPT
exhaust manifold would cover most bolt on parts. Engine rebuild cost is up to you
depends on whether you go forged or cast pistons. The crank is the same between
the turbo and NA the TX3 manual says so.

Hope this helps
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