Spotted: Blue SP23 (i think) almost braking through a red light ?????

[xoom]

Hi guys,

Spotted a blue sp23 (i think it was a sp23) trying to pull up after trying to catch up 2 me after we took off from a set of lights further up the road and then sliding to come to a complete stop and almost sliding through the next red light ....... well done

How did i know he was from this forum u ask ????? The big astina GT sticker on the rear of the car ..... not giving u guys the best reputation ......

I was in the blue sportivo u were trying 2 catch with no success hahahahahah

Better luck next time ...... but u really shouldnt be driving that way on public roads ..... just know when ur out muscled and give up ......

cheers
Bill

[SILVABULLIT]

Sounds like he bit off more than he could chew???

[chicaboo]

Can't have been an SP23, as they have ABS as standard. Infact I think the Maxx Sport does too (same as SP23 but with 2.0L). So it must have been a Neo (base model) or Maxx model (not so base model).

I get a kick out of smoking Mokes.

[LordWorm]

hardly a fair matchup - turbo charged sportivo vs an SP23 that might just be a neo.


turbo charged sportivo vs the snertspeed SP23T (no, not MPS - like the xoom's stivo its a purpose built MPS munching machine).....that'd be a match worth watching

until the first corner

when the sportivo's inferior suspension makes it fall off the side of a hill

[chicaboo]

I want to see a dyno graph of what a turbo does to the (shirt)Lift point/crossover on the Stivo.

Gav.

[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by chicaboo

I want to see a dyno graph of what a turbo does to the (shirt)Lift point/crossover on the Stivo.

Gav.

probably simillar things that happen on honda's.... the point would become almost undistingusihable as the boost comes on with avengence and fills in any hole in the curve... .... sb or xoom will clarify but i'd imagine that this is the case.

i'd also IMAGINE the "i" part of vvtli has been disabled so it doens't advance the crap out of the cams and introduce massive overlap as it approaching skirt lift.....overlap on (relativly) small turbos isn't great....you basically blow the intake charge straight out the other side of the head....you can get away with on monster race turbos...i forget the specifics.

But yeh, would that be right Brenndan or xoom? turbo comes on before the lift point and just burries the torque hole and everything else as it spools?

[SILVABULLIT]

Originally Posted by LordWorm

hardly a fair matchup - turbo charged sportivo vs an SP23 that might just be a neo.


turbo charged sportivo vs the snertspeed SP23T (no, not MPS - like the xoom's stivo its a purpose built MPS munching machine).....that'd be a match worth watching

until the first corner

when the sportivo's inferior suspension makes it fall off the side of a hill

Like matchup between a SP23 and a Sportivo. After all we are giving you 500cc head start Mate don't you mean the inferior suspension under your sled??? xoom is running coilovers, TRD sway bars and also a quaife LSD so i think the heavier and fatter SP23 would have trouble keeping up.

By the way, Xoom's has 196kw atw on 15psi. Just running it in for a while to make sure all is good. Then another couple of psi should see it well over 200kw atw

So how much does Snert's car have at the wheels?? Just wondering as one of the guys from Mercury said they managed to get 180 odd kw but then backed the tune off a bit due to the worry of it going bang?? Can you shed any light on this all knowing wormie??

Gav - shift point for lift has been moved to 5700rpm due to him running PFC.(which is optimal cross over point between cams) Power comes on early and holds all the way to redline. At 4000rpm he has 120kw atw which is the peak power that my car produces. and he loves to remind me of it LOL. Many a more fancied bits of gear have had a run with him and have been shown a clean set of heels

[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by SILVABULLIT

Like matchup between a SP23 and a Sportivo. After all we are giving you 500cc head start Mate don't you mean the inferior suspension under your sled??? xoom is running coilovers, TRD sway bars and also a quaife LSD so i think the heavier and fatter SP23 would have trouble keeping up.

Cubes mean nothing and you know that, especially when you start hitting it with boost.

You may give the SP23's a 500cc head start, but you rev well past where they do..... you make more power then they do out of the box, and the yamaha head is light years ahead of anything even honda were making at the time....cubes mean nothing in the scheme of things. Turbo charged stivo vs neo is akin to having a race between a granny farthing bicycle and a formula 1 car......


Kurts 23 is on teins, upgraded bars, quaife torque biasing diff and runs significantly lighter than stock. he also doesn't have a very limiting rear suspension setup like all the sportivos do (torsion bar etc).

if you think the sportivo's suspension is approaching even the BG astina's stock for stock, well, i'll let you think that.....

And where not talking about my "sled".....where talking about 2 very fast, turbo charged cars.

By the way, Xoom's has 196kw atw on 15psi. Just running it in for a while to make sure all is good. Then another couple of psi should see it well over 200kw atw

So how much does Snert's car have at the wheels?? Just wondering as one of the guys from Mercury said they managed to get 180 odd kw but then backed the tune off a bit due to the worry of it going bang?? Can you shed any light on this all knowing wormie??

they had it around 180 odd kw but yeh, too much boost as far as i know... bare in mind its still on stock internals, where as xoom's is fully built.

Not long ago, the mercury guys found a boost leak, fixed it, and it runs well and truely over 200kW with no additional psi.....i think its between 12 and 15psi..not 100% sure...details are in his OMC readers ride etc.....


not denying that Xoom's car is impressive......but, as per usual, its the be all and end all with you guys - and to come on here bragging about how a 196kW built car can "pound" a sub 100kW neo is hardly bragging rights...


time to bury the hatchet guys. Realise the sportivo isn't the car of the moment, if it ever really was, that you might be better than some cars, but you are not better than all cars....and there are elements in even the early 90's 323s that are superior, just like there are things in teh AE86 rolla that are vastly superior to alot of hot 4's from mazda, mitsu, nissan, other corollas etc that are many many years younger. Just cos somethings newer, or uses "newer" technology, doesn't make it better.

Different strokes for different folks. I know i'd never trade the 20 to a corolla, just like you'll never go the other way. just cos we chose to drive neo's and BG's, and old school BFs and all the things we drive, doesn't make our place in the car enthusiest community any less valid, and doesn't make what we do to our cars any less impressive.

Gav - shift point for lift has been moved to 5700rpm due to him running PFC.(which is optimal cross over point between cams) Power comes on early and holds all the way to redline. At 4000rpm he has 120kw atw which is the peak power that my car produces. and he loves to remind me of it LOL. Many a more fancied bits of gear have had a run with him and have been shown a clean set of heels

Expected as much... so its essentially buring any sign of the lift point at all? i thought your car was up aroudn the 130kW mark now? hows xoom's gearbox holding up to it? any upgrades other than the quaife?

[Northy]

what a load of dribble....

[chicaboo]

196kW ATW is very good compared to an ancient B6/BPT (or any car for that matter!). What turbine/compressor is Bill running? Even with 15psi and a disco potato I don't think I could easily break 150kW ATW with my 1.6 Laser...

Gav.

PS: The Mazda3 is a heavy car even with a displacement advantage. Torque helps though I spose...

[xoom]

its running the gt2871 chicaboo with a few modifications as that setup is borderline 2 big for a 1.8L ..... i had no intentions of running or hounding that fella in his car .... as stated by lord worm hardly worth a match up .... i was in a rush as i was running late and i just found it absolutely hilarious given what happened and his attempts 2 pull up ...... i dunno .... ignoring which ever car it was that did this i still would have pissed myself laughing ..... wouldnt u ??????

regarding lift n boost .... basically the car feels like it has 3 cams ..... the first is the general off the mark till i hit peak boost where it feels like a 2nd cam has taken over and then the 3rd when lift hits ...... boost only drops off 1psi all the way from peak boost to fuel cut .....

the box seems 2 b holding up fine ..... ive seen bigger applications than mine with no LSD hold up fine for over 2 yrs n they are still running ..... from wat i can tell its that key difference between driving hard and thrashing .....

regarding the handling lordworm ill let the cusco zero 2's with all the support bars and top notch tyres do the talking :P :P :P .... but thanks 4 asking ....

again as stated ..... the world would b a boring place if everyone liked the same stuff ..... and i love mechanical challenges like what we've gone through with the stivo as this setup wasnt an easy 1 to pull off by any means ..... people who love the technically side of things will appreciate whats been done .....

Hopefully when im happy that all is fine and all is settled i'll b back out @ the tuners as the current tune is concervative on all fronts not just from the amount of boost im running but from fiddling with all the other variables as well just so we can make sure its all working fine ...... then hopefully we'll be hunting for the 230kw+ mark ....

[skitz]

wow this thread makes me seem so piss weak with my stocko car :P

hey u mind me asking what model sportivo you have ie rolla, camery etc etc?

my dad has a rolla sportivo mind you his is stock as a tak and i dont mind it well in comparison to my car, mind you it is SERVAL yrs newer.

and yeah as said in your first post that kinda dose make a bad image for our club and all but hey who hasent we cant all be little angles all the time :P

that is a bit harsh though coming on to a astina site and braging about how good ur car is compard to ours lol, like granted it is a sweet car but each to there own...

kyle

[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by xoom

regarding the handling lordworm ill let the cusco zero 2's with all the support bars and top notch tyres do the talking :P :P :P .... but thanks 4 asking ....

nice setup. I don't doubt that you have massive handling options. I was simply stating that the sportivo standard chassis and rear end setup is somewhat limiting - yes you can make a handling monster out of it, but there are plenty of cars that will take to massive handling upgrades more readilly with better results for less money. Torsion rear ends do not offer the same flexibility as struts which don't offer the same flexibility of multilinks which don't offer the same flexibility of wishbones etc....

again as stated ..... the world would b a boring place if everyone liked the same stuff ..... and i love mechanical challenges like what we've gone through with the stivo as this setup wasnt an easy 1 to pull off by any means ..... people who love the technically side of things will appreciate whats been done .....

that is my point. if the stivo was the be all and end all, you wouldn't modify it at all. people do what they do for different reasons. Those that know whats happening to the protege think i'm mad for doing it because there are far easier ways to make bigger power etc...but things get done because we all like to be different.

Hopefully when im happy that all is fine and all is settled i'll b back out @ the tuners as the current tune is concervative on all fronts not just from the amount of boost im running but from fiddling with all the other variables as well just so we can make sure its all working fine ...... then hopefully we'll be hunting for the 230kw+ mark ....

from the pics on the tocau forums it looks like you've built it to hold an inordinate amount of boost. hopefully you don't go sacrificing drivability whilst hunting down big power. EBC's are your friend of course....

I'm also curious as to how far you can push the box - and what you would plan to do in the event of grenading it. again back to kurts SP23, his box was hardened (chryo treated etc) and he shattered it.... the box is a relative of the G series mazda box and they are not known for their reliability....but it seems ultra strong front wheel drive boxes from any manufacturer are few and far between.