Whiteline Swaybar Club

nalawa · 11-03-2005, 05:18 PM

Yes siree Bob,

I'm now a member of the Whiteline Rear Swaybar club. Order a BMR53 for the 98 Hardtop and it arrived yesterday. Picked it up this afternoon and installed it pretty much a soon as I got home. Took the car for a quick spin and got some clunking noise from the rear. Re-checked the install and the bar had somehow got stuck underr the lip of the trailing arm bush. So a quick jack up released the bar and I loosened and the retightened the sway bar bolts. Took it for another quick spin, still some noise but it didn't stick this time. Will give it some time to settle in before I get wooried about the noises. Best thing was the bar was cheaper than quoted

When I got there the girl had incorrectly priced the bar at $125.00, being the good customer I inquired about the price difference, and she rechecked the price and it was $156.00 (original quote). But because of my honesty she let me have it for $146.00

Also while I was there I priced the cost of upgrading the supsension and got the following prices:

King Springs (front and Rear) = $280.00
Koni Red Shocks (F & R) = $919.40
Noltec Adjustable Front Strut Mount = $471.43
Noltec rear Camber Bolt kit = $100.00
Whiteline Front Strut Brace = $179.00
4 Wheel alignment = $66.00
Install =$300.00

Total =$2315.83

Quoted after discount (inc install) =$2130.00

Do they look like reasonable prices?

platypus · 11-03-2005, 05:57 PM

looks ok, except for the camber kit, and the adjustable tops

but you gotta decide what you want... camber kit should be less than that, and the adjustable tops are a debatable item - i err to not needed

nalawa · 11-03-2005, 06:36 PM

Was thinking of the Front Strut Mounts as they adjust for both camber (+20/-10mm) and caster (-/+10mm), therefore no need for pins on the front.

What should the camber pins cost?

Cheers

mrpayner · 11-03-2005, 06:48 PM

I would opt out of the King Spring setup and get the Whiteline coils.. Much nicer handling from them and they will work better with the sway bar and strut braces.. I also have the Koni Red's, and these are adjustable pre-installation. Get someone who know's how to set them up for you, and adjust them to 50% stiffness before installation.

One other thing.. I don't know why you'd need a REAR camber bolt kit.. it's mainly the front that these bolts are needed, and only if you're going lower than 2 inches really.. I don't have them at all and my setup is fine! And piss that front strut mount off too.. It's almost asking if you'd like fries with your meal and you don't really need them..

Regards
Adam

Rupewrecht · 11-03-2005, 07:15 PM

well, i'd go for camber bolts at the front - at $100 a set they're much cheaper than the Noltec adjustable strut tops.

Cosmo Dude · 11-03-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht

well, i'd go for camber bolts at the front - at $100 a set they're much cheaper than the Noltec adjustable strut tops.

Yeah but you get camber, caster, ease of adjustability and the security that dodgie camber pins just can't offer.

nalawa · 12-03-2005, 08:35 AM

Adam - Thanks for the comments mate, interestingly Jenny at Dr. Shocks suggested the Kings Springs because the Whitelines are to soft, Lovells to hard, and Kings just right! Interesting that you say don't worry about a strut brace or rear camber pins, you are the first person I've heard say this. I was basing my potential setup on the famous whiteline article on setting up an Astina, which mentions them. Also not convinced about the Konis, not so keen on cut and shut, was thinking of maybe KYB strut replacments.

Dan - Agree mate $100 vs $471 is always easy to live with. But getting both caster and camber plus ease of adjustment, well lets just say I'm undecided.

Cosmo - Ditto

Question is then what do other people recommend regarding a front strut brace and camber pins on the rear? (nothing personal Adam, just curious).

2nd Question - What are the factory camber/caster/toe-in settings for a 98 Hardtop?

Cosmo Dude · 12-03-2005, 11:41 AM

They are no different from the hatch.

A performance suspension place should be able to tweak them but you would really need someone who knows about steering and suspension geometry. You would also be required to pay for that expertise.
Your local tyre shop hires spanner monkeys, they enter the make, model and year and the screen tells them what to do. (I know this 'cos my Cosmo was an '81 model and they used 929L settings not HB 929 regardless of where I took it or how carefully I explaned

)

nalawa · 13-03-2005, 08:45 AM

Thanks Cosmo,

Much appreciated mate! Alway willing to pay a reasonable amount for quality work, hard part is finding some one local that do the required work!

mrpayner · 13-03-2005, 05:14 PM

Hey Chris.. Sorry, i should have explained myself a little better.. In regard to King Springs and their handling, these coils are suitable if you're only going to change the springs [and possibly shocks] as they are indeed a slightly stiffer ride over the whiteline coils. I don't have anything against King Springs at all and a lot of people use them on these forums including my brother who had King Springs in his last 3 cars. I just found them to be too bouncy for my personal taste. As with anything, the other bits and pieces will help improve and make up for other faults that lay within suspension setups.

However, Whiteline's philosophy is to have a complete handling package. This is why if you make an enquiry through the whiteline website about coils they will also recommend other parts of their suspension catalogue to compliment the coils. For example, when i enquired about getting replacement coils for my astina they also recommended getting an upgraded rear sway bar to compliment the coils. These 2 components working together [ie coils and sway bar] will give you better results than just having lowering coils [obviously].. Optionally, having the front tower strut bar will give you further improvement of greater directional handling when cornering.

Ultimately it's your decision.. I guess the best solution is to get a car with king springs and take it for a drive.. then drive a different car with whiteline gear and compare the 2.

Strangely, I'm still a little confused as to why the suspension workshop recommended rear camber bolts instead of camber bolts for the front.. weird..

AP

SehnKhan · 13-03-2005, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPayner

I don't have anything against King Springs at all and a lot of people use them on these forums including my brother who had King Springs in his last 3 cars. I just found them to be too bouncy for my personal taste.

They were definately too bouncy, though on all 3 cars I was only using standard shock absorbers. I am currently running a setup similar to MrPayners car, using Whiteline Flatout springs and KYB shock absorbers (plus a Whiteline rear swaybar and Familia GTX strut bar) and I have to say the difference is amazing! I don't think I'll be going back to King Springs. I have nothing against them either, but I find the ride using Whitelines is a very, very nice ride indeed!

platypus · 13-03-2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPayner

Strangely, I'm still a little confused as to why the suspension workshop recommended rear camber bolts instead of camber bolts for the front.. weird..

AP

pay attention
they also recommend front pillow tops....

hence the rear camber bolts would be for full camber adjustment

troubl · 14-03-2005, 03:40 AM

I'm also sittin on a pile of money, waitin 2 buy the RIGHT sus. shock package.
fellas i'm in BRISBANE & don't wanna go 2 the 'pedders/fulcrum' type of guys.
i'm lookin 4 sum1 that knows my car & knows how to make em handle !
i've heard of the konis monroes bilsteins kobes kybs whitelines etc. etc. etc.
incidently,
I've been told by 1 shockfitter that 'KYB' shocks are standard in my car n so i guess mx6s astinas probes n tx5s also have these as standard...
oh, i own a '92 2.5L V6 626 hatch

i want a package that will allow me to throw it into hard corners. but don't wanna uncomfortable ride round town. i have bodykit on the vehicle so i don't want it, my stereo, the dash or the doors bounced, shaken or vibrated off the car bcuz i want it 2 handle well.
terms like $hit2ablanket, handle like its on rails, goes where u tell it go. are all words i wish to describe my ride.
any assistance is appreciated ...

Rupewrecht · 14-03-2005, 11:07 AM

i'd be surprised if the 626 has KYBs when the Astina has Tokicos as standard. but being mazda - who knows

Cosmo Dude · 14-03-2005, 11:31 AM

If they were KYB then they wouldn't be the same as you would buy from a performance shop they would be tuned for the mom and pop style of motoring.
Performance KYB are good bang for buck but do give a harshish ride IMO. I'd be spending the exta $$$ on Koni (red needs to be adjusted before fitment while yellow can be adjusted on the car).

nalawa · 14-03-2005, 12:33 PM

Adam thanks for the extra detail,

All food for thought, it won't happen till the 2nd half of the year (hopefully) but what you said make's a lot of sense. Especially as Whiteline did the reasearch and testing of an intergrated package. So it would make sense to follow their advice and match their swaybar with shocks and springs.

Cosmo, is the extra cost of Koni yellows over reds worth while? use of the car is daily driver, with weekend spirited drives North of Sydney.

Cheers again guys.

Cosmo Dude · 14-03-2005, 12:40 PM

Yes there is a price difference. Reds are cheaper but you'll need to do a ring around to find out for your self the exact price.

nalawa · 14-03-2005, 12:45 PM

Yeah mate, I realised there is a price difference, what I was wondering is the extra cash for yellows worth it in terms of performance, adjustability etc, or would reds suffice for normal usage and then spend the extra cash on something else (there is always something to buy)

Cosmo Dude · 14-03-2005, 03:30 PM

Most people don't know enough about suspension to tune it correctly (at a guess 90% of those who say they do have their hand on their dick). Most of the roads you drive are too varied for you to tune in your shocks anyway.
Even if you regularly changed the load you carry in your car you wouldn't need to alter your shocks.
Is it worth the difference in cost? Well that's a judgement call and I need to leave that in your hands.

Oh yeah, the black rubber strip on my ol' 'stina was factory.

platypus · 14-03-2005, 03:55 PM

thats why there is specilaised electronic equipment to give direct readings - peopel jsut dial in the recommendations

having said that... if you play with the Konis you can get a feel for the way thigns handle over time

11-03-2005, 05:18 PM	#1
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Whiteline Swaybar Club Yes siree Bob, I'm now a member of the Whiteline Rear Swaybar club. Order a BMR53 for the 98 Hardtop and it arrived yesterday. Picked it up this afternoon and installed it pretty much a soon as I got home. Took the car for a quick spin and got some clunking noise from the rear. Re-checked the install and the bar had somehow got stuck underr the lip of the trailing arm bush. So a quick jack up released the bar and I loosened and the retightened the sway bar bolts. Took it for another quick spin, still some noise but it didn't stick this time. Will give it some time to settle in before I get wooried about the noises. Best thing was the bar was cheaper than quoted When I got there the girl had incorrectly priced the bar at $125.00, being the good customer I inquired about the price difference, and she rechecked the price and it was $156.00 (original quote). But because of my honesty she let me have it for $146.00 Also while I was there I priced the cost of upgrading the supsension and got the following prices: King Springs (front and Rear) = $280.00 Koni Red Shocks (F & R) = $919.40 Noltec Adjustable Front Strut Mount = $471.43 Noltec rear Camber Bolt kit = $100.00 Whiteline Front Strut Brace = $179.00 4 Wheel alignment = $66.00 Install =$300.00 Total =$2315.83 Quoted after discount (inc install) =$2130.00 Do they look like reasonable prices? __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop

11-03-2005, 05:57 PM	#2
platypus living in the past man Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newcastle, NSW Car: Subaru Outback 2.0 turbo Posts: 4,707	looks ok, except for the camber kit, and the adjustable tops but you gotta decide what you want... camber kit should be less than that, and the adjustable tops are a debatable item - i err to not needed __________________ 1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost...

11-03-2005, 06:36 PM	#3
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Was thinking of the Front Strut Mounts as they adjust for both camber (+20/-10mm) and caster (-/+10mm), therefore no need for pins on the front. What should the camber pins cost? Cheers __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop

11-03-2005, 06:48 PM	#4
mrpayner Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: -37.561609, 143.854814 Car: 2013 Mazda 6 GT Sedan - Soul Red Posts: 3,517 View Photos By: mrpayner	I would opt out of the King Spring setup and get the Whiteline coils.. Much nicer handling from them and they will work better with the sway bar and strut braces.. I also have the Koni Red's, and these are adjustable pre-installation. Get someone who know's how to set them up for you, and adjust them to 50% stiffness before installation. One other thing.. I don't know why you'd need a REAR camber bolt kit.. it's mainly the front that these bolts are needed, and only if you're going lower than 2 inches really.. I don't have them at all and my setup is fine! And piss that front strut mount off too.. It's almost asking if you'd like fries with your meal and you don't really need them.. Regards Adam __________________ 2013 Mazda6 Diesel GT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[Formerly] 2004 Mazda6 Luxury Sport

11-03-2005, 07:15 PM	#5
Rupewrecht Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: melb.vic.au Car: AZ-1, Astina Hardtop Turbo, BJ Protege, Beetle Posts: 16,525 View Photos By: Rupewrecht	well, i'd go for camber bolts at the front - at $100 a set they're much cheaper than the Noltec adjustable strut tops. __________________ jdmparts.rupewrecht.com Sourcing your not-quite-overnight parts from Japan WRECHT--\|--SLOWTEGE--\|--BEETLE--\|--SUBSTITUTE--\|--AZ-1

12-03-2005, 08:35 AM	#7
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Adam - Thanks for the comments mate, interestingly Jenny at Dr. Shocks suggested the Kings Springs because the Whitelines are to soft, Lovells to hard, and Kings just right! Interesting that you say don't worry about a strut brace or rear camber pins, you are the first person I've heard say this. I was basing my potential setup on the famous whiteline article on setting up an Astina, which mentions them. Also not convinced about the Konis, not so keen on cut and shut, was thinking of maybe KYB strut replacments. Dan - Agree mate $100 vs $471 is always easy to live with. But getting both caster and camber plus ease of adjustment, well lets just say I'm undecided. Cosmo - Ditto Question is then what do other people recommend regarding a front strut brace and camber pins on the rear? (nothing personal Adam, just curious). 2nd Question - What are the factory camber/caster/toe-in settings for a 98 Hardtop? __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop Last edited by nalawa; 12-03-2005 at 08:56 AM.

12-03-2005, 11:41 AM	#8
Cosmo Dude コスモ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Location: Vic Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD Posts: 7,888 View Photos By: Cosmo Dude	They are no different from the hatch. A performance suspension place should be able to tweak them but you would really need someone who knows about steering and suspension geometry. You would also be required to pay for that expertise. Your local tyre shop hires spanner monkeys, they enter the make, model and year and the screen tells them what to do. (I know this 'cos my Cosmo was an '81 model and they used 929L settings not HB 929 regardless of where I took it or how carefully I explaned ) __________________ My 'stina Hatch

13-03-2005, 08:45 AM	#9
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Thanks Cosmo, Much appreciated mate! Alway willing to pay a reasonable amount for quality work, hard part is finding some one local that do the required work! __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop

13-03-2005, 05:14 PM	#10
mrpayner Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: -37.561609, 143.854814 Car: 2013 Mazda 6 GT Sedan - Soul Red Posts: 3,517 View Photos By: mrpayner	Hey Chris.. Sorry, i should have explained myself a little better.. In regard to King Springs and their handling, these coils are suitable if you're only going to change the springs [and possibly shocks] as they are indeed a slightly stiffer ride over the whiteline coils. I don't have anything against King Springs at all and a lot of people use them on these forums including my brother who had King Springs in his last 3 cars. I just found them to be too bouncy for my personal taste. As with anything, the other bits and pieces will help improve and make up for other faults that lay within suspension setups. However, Whiteline's philosophy is to have a complete handling package. This is why if you make an enquiry through the whiteline website about coils they will also recommend other parts of their suspension catalogue to compliment the coils. For example, when i enquired about getting replacement coils for my astina they also recommended getting an upgraded rear sway bar to compliment the coils. These 2 components working together [ie coils and sway bar] will give you better results than just having lowering coils [obviously].. Optionally, having the front tower strut bar will give you further improvement of greater directional handling when cornering. Ultimately it's your decision.. I guess the best solution is to get a car with king springs and take it for a drive.. then drive a different car with whiteline gear and compare the 2. Strangely, I'm still a little confused as to why the suspension workshop recommended rear camber bolts instead of camber bolts for the front.. weird.. AP __________________ 2013 Mazda6 Diesel GT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[Formerly] 2004 Mazda6 Luxury Sport Last edited by mrpayner; 13-03-2005 at 05:16 PM.

14-03-2005, 03:40 AM	#13
troubl Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: here Car: atmgixxer@280kph Posts: 51 View Photos By: troubl	Shed Sum More Light... I'm also sittin on a pile of money, waitin 2 buy the RIGHT sus. shock package. fellas i'm in BRISBANE & don't wanna go 2 the 'pedders/fulcrum' type of guys. i'm lookin 4 sum1 that knows my car & knows how to make em handle ! i've heard of the konis monroes bilsteins kobes kybs whitelines etc. etc. etc. incidently, I've been told by 1 shockfitter that 'KYB' shocks are standard in my car n so i guess mx6s astinas probes n tx5s also have these as standard... oh, i own a '92 2.5L V6 626 hatch i want a package that will allow me to throw it into hard corners. but don't wanna uncomfortable ride round town. i have bodykit on the vehicle so i don't want it, my stereo, the dash or the doors bounced, shaken or vibrated off the car bcuz i want it 2 handle well. terms like $hit2ablanket, handle like its on rails, goes where u tell it go. are all words i wish to describe my ride. any assistance is appreciated ...

14-03-2005, 11:07 AM	#14
Rupewrecht Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: melb.vic.au Car: AZ-1, Astina Hardtop Turbo, BJ Protege, Beetle Posts: 16,525 View Photos By: Rupewrecht	i'd be surprised if the 626 has KYBs when the Astina has Tokicos as standard. but being mazda - who knows __________________ jdmparts.rupewrecht.com Sourcing your not-quite-overnight parts from Japan WRECHT--\|--SLOWTEGE--\|--BEETLE--\|--SUBSTITUTE--\|--AZ-1

14-03-2005, 11:31 AM	#15
Cosmo Dude コスモ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Location: Vic Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD Posts: 7,888 View Photos By: Cosmo Dude	If they were KYB then they wouldn't be the same as you would buy from a performance shop they would be tuned for the mom and pop style of motoring. Performance KYB are good bang for buck but do give a harshish ride IMO. I'd be spending the exta $$$ on Koni (red needs to be adjusted before fitment while yellow can be adjusted on the car). __________________ My 'stina Hatch

14-03-2005, 12:33 PM	#16
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Adam thanks for the extra detail, All food for thought, it won't happen till the 2nd half of the year (hopefully) but what you said make's a lot of sense. Especially as Whiteline did the reasearch and testing of an intergrated package. So it would make sense to follow their advice and match their swaybar with shocks and springs. Cosmo, is the extra cost of Koni yellows over reds worth while? use of the car is daily driver, with weekend spirited drives North of Sydney. Cheers again guys. __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop

14-03-2005, 12:40 PM	#17
Cosmo Dude コスモ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Location: Vic Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD Posts: 7,888 View Photos By: Cosmo Dude	Yes there is a price difference. Reds are cheaper but you'll need to do a ring around to find out for your self the exact price. __________________ My 'stina Hatch

14-03-2005, 12:45 PM	#18
nalawa DBF Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sydney Posts: 134 View Photos By: nalawa	Yeah mate, I realised there is a price difference, what I was wondering is the extra cash for yellows worth it in terms of performance, adjustability etc, or would reds suffice for normal usage and then spend the extra cash on something else (there is always something to buy) __________________ Christopher P. Hunt 98 1.8L BA Hardtop

14-03-2005, 03:30 PM	#19
Cosmo Dude コスモ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Location: Vic Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD Posts: 7,888 View Photos By: Cosmo Dude	Most people don't know enough about suspension to tune it correctly (at a guess 90% of those who say they do have their hand on their dick). Most of the roads you drive are too varied for you to tune in your shocks anyway. Even if you regularly changed the load you carry in your car you wouldn't need to alter your shocks. Is it worth the difference in cost? Well that's a judgement call and I need to leave that in your hands. Oh yeah, the black rubber strip on my ol' 'stina was factory. __________________ My 'stina Hatch

14-03-2005, 03:55 PM	#20
platypus living in the past man Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Newcastle, NSW Car: Subaru Outback 2.0 turbo Posts: 4,707	thats why there is specilaised electronic equipment to give direct readings - peopel jsut dial in the recommendations having said that... if you play with the Konis you can get a feel for the way thigns handle over time __________________ 1997 BG5 Subaru Outback - Now with STI boost...

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