SP20 E10 fuel

[da20valve]

Okay so the other day i ran out of fuel and the only fuel i could get was that nasty E10 blended ****, So i put $20 in. I got fuel the very next day (probably did 150 k's with E10), my question is

1 Will E10 hurt it for that amount of k's (im assuming its okay)
2 What sort of fuel do you guys use in your SP's (Premium of regular)

[marcs_sp20]

You are recommended to run a minimum of 95 premium unleaded. Although there is nothing wrong with running ethanol blended fuels, mosts members dont want to risk problems down the track.

I run Caltex Vortex 98, have been doing so for a year now, and get around 50-70kms more out of a tank compared to 95...

[Marksp20]

I spoke to a few service managers at different Mazda dealerships and they all suggested to use only premium unleaded...all the time...as in time the e10 will affect your engine...so as marc was saying I also use the vortex 98 premium unleaded fuel...Its better for the longlife of your engine...

[70NYD]

there are many threads in regards to using E10 in a car

i wont get in to it again as i can get quite fired up

[Ice88]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

there are many threads in regards to using E10 in a car

i wont get in to it again as i can get quite fired up

Im not sure which threads your refering too. If there in regards to E10 in general cars then thats a different matter the SP20 requires Premium Unleaded.

[70NYD]

does it say in the user manual of the car or on the fuel cap to use premium only? thats what im getting at

[marcs_sp20]

there's no need for the search crap, I answered his question in the second post, and searching will give you a general answer, not particularly for just SP20's...

[NaughtyGT]

Originally Posted by da20valve

Okay so the other day i ran out of fuel and the only fuel i could get was that nasty E10 blended ****, So i put $20 in. I got fuel the very next day (probably did 150 k's with E10), my question is

1 Will E10 hurt it for that amount of k's (im assuming its okay)
2 What sort of fuel do you guys use in your SP's (Premium of regular)

I'm with Tony on this one man We've been through this debate a while back a few times but to answer your immediate concern. NO it will not hurt your car using once. Nothing will hurt your car once in a while.

As Tony suggested, search about fuels as there is quite a bit to understanding to be had before you make a qualified judgment. Also Marc's suggestion @ least won't hurt until you have the right information on board. Do what you know is best This way you don't have to stress & get paranoid over it

P.S. They've been scarring people for years concerning LPG that it doesn't lubricate seals enough & will wreck your engine.....bollocks! Many an owner has pulled down engines & found them to be clean. LPG is actually cleaner burning (lower emissions/less wasted fuel down the exhaust.....this is why petrol engines have a cat so unspent fuel is burnt again so to speak in the cat, before it ever gets outside tail pipe & into atmosphere). If you don't get adequate supply & tune right fair enough. LPG is easy to tune actually depending on the set up. E85 is becoming more spoken about. I would't use it personally unless I had a track or drag car. Methanol can be as high as 135 octane. E85 has a 100-105 octane rating. E10 is significantly less a danger isn't it? Still. Go the premium til' it's all understood properly.

[Cosmo Dude]

Mazda are never going to go back and test ethanol blends in their older cars, there is no financial reward in it for them. As such they can't recommend that you use them.
However I've heard the wildest claims about what ethanol has done to engines I.E. breaking throttle body position sensors and I'm sure someone has blamed it for impotence and if any of this were true then the fuel companies selling it would have a standing appointment in the courts. I've used it in many Mazdas from my '86 929 to the 2006 Mazda 2 and never had a problem, the reason I don't use it ATM is I'm running diesel and if I could get regular supplies of bio-diesel I'd probably use that.

[chicaboo]

It's worth noting that the Mazda2 is E10 ready from the get-go. So I actually tried E10 in my Mazda2 a few times when I had it, and found the economy loss with the E10 didn't offset the lower pump price. So I was better off using 95RON, and I couldn't notice any appreciable increase in economy/power with 98RON. Given this, I don't recommend E10. Although some cars benefit from 98RON over 95RON, but you would need to try that out for yourself.

Gav.

[arden]

I used a combo of BP Ultimate and Caltex Vortex 98 in the 7 years i owned my SP20.

I didnt mind paying the extra cents for the extra mileage i got.

[NaughtyGT]

Originally Posted by Cosmo Dude

Mazda are never going to go back and test ethanol blends in their older cars, there is no financial reward in it for them. As such they can't recommend that you use them.
However I've heard the wildest claims about what ethanol has done to engines I.E. breaking throttle body position sensors and I'm sure someone has blamed it for impotence and if any of this were true then the fuel companies selling it would have a standing appointment in the courts. I've used it in many Mazdas from my '86 929 to the 2006 Mazda 2 and never had a problem, the reason I don't use it ATM is I'm running diesel and if I could get regular supplies of bio-diesel I'd probably use that.

exactly too much old-wives tales going on.

Originally Posted by chicaboo

It's worth noting that the Mazda2 is E10 ready from the get-go. So I actually tried E10 in my Mazda2 a few times when I had it, and found the economy loss with the E10 didn't offset the lower pump price. So I was better off using 95RON, and I couldn't notice any appreciable increase in economy/power with 98RON. Given this, I don't recommend E10. Although some cars benefit from 98RON over 95RON, but you would need to try that out for yourself.

Gav.

Likewise, the E85 is less economical in that you have to use more of it to achieve the same results as normal pump fuels such as 95 RON But it is higher octane for race applications. Economy? No!

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by NaughtyGT

exactly too much old-wives tales going on.



Likewise, the E85 is less economical in that you have to use more of it to achieve the same results as normal pump fuels such as 95 RON But it is higher octane for race applications. Economy? No!

Yeah but if tuned properly the engine can have either better economy or more power. Using e85 or even e10 is a waste of money unless you re tune the engine since it's a different fuel. Kinda like sticking LPG in a car and not tuning it, then compaining how bad the economy is..

And to answer the original question, no it won't hurt your engine. Marc said SP20 needs minimum ron95 well e10 is ron95 minimum (actually 95.5but yeah) and it will not hurt your engine. I don't think it ever hurt engines, but I it is a wonderful thing what slander campaigns do (there is a reason why not many ppl heard of a EV1..)
Putting e10straight in to your car without advancing ignition will give less km per tank as e10 has a slightly smaller energy value than standard petrol 95..

[NaughtyGT]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

e10 is ron95 minimum and it will not hurt your engine

Basically, E10 has premium fuel properties. The main asset that 'premium' fuels have is there higher octane.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

Putting e10straight in to your car without advancing ignition will give less km per tank as e10 has a slightly smaller energy value than standard petrol 95..

thanks for clearing that up mate. This is where I balls it up a little but yeah generally speaking the higher octane fuels reuire more of it to go the distance with standard RON pump fuel. In this case @ least I didn't consider the tuning. My bad This leads me to my signature line haha....it's all in the tune

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by NaughtyGT

Basically, E10 has premium fuel properties. The main asset that 'premium' fuels have is there higher octane.



thanks for clearing that up mate. This is where I balls it up a little but yeah generally speaking the higher octane fuels reuire more of it to go the distance with standard RON pump fuel. In this case @ least I didn't consider the tuning. My bad This leads me to my signature line haha....it's all in the tune

nah man i wasnt taking a dig at you i was jut answering the original question
and yeah man its all in the tune like with modern ECUs, especially if you have a knock sensor, the engine will take advantage of higher ron fuels and self tune to a point giving you either more economy or more power depending on how you drive. but ethanol is a different fuel and needs different fuel maps all together (not too diferent, just not the same as petrol) to take full advantage of it.
for example
Lotus Exige S ~ 163 KW @ 7800 12L/100KM 0-100 4.1s
Lotus Exige E ~ 197 KW @ 8000 11L/100KM 0-100 3.8s (has 35Nm of torque more 2 )
(E is the e85 version of S with a proper tune, same toyota engine with a SC)

[NaughtyGT]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

nah man i wasnt taking a dig at you i was jut answering the original question
and yeah man its all in the tune like with modern ECUs, especially if you have a knock sensor, the engine will take advantage of higher ron fuels and self tune to a point giving you either more economy or more power depending on how you drive. but ethanol is a different fuel and needs different fuel maps all together (not too diferent, just not the same as petrol) to take full advantage of it.
for example
Lotus Exige S ~ 163 KW @ 7800 12L/100KM 0-100 4.1s
Lotus Exige E ~ 197 KW @ 8000 11L/100KM 0-100 3.8s (has 35Nm of torque more 2 )
(E is the e85 version of S with a proper tune, same toyota engine with a SC)

This brings me to another point Tony. You'd really only consider the ethanol fuels in performance applications @ this stage?I feel only the boosted or highly worked NA cars would really benefit? Not saying they wouldn't benefit @ all just if you weren't after the performance properties of the ethanol fuel, it wouldn't make too much difference in a stock application would it ie: SC = 35Nm torque due to available brute hp but a stock engine may only see increased power gain by 5Nm in similar driving pattern? See where I'm going? I dunno but I believe it's just boosting the sugar industry using ethanol added fuels. Interesting about the tuning need though in this case that I overlooked.

[rodhog]

I'm just going to put this to you all

Since E10 - came on board. At the workshop I frequent where cars are like majority your cars ages etc Owner by similar owners but also Mum's and Dad's

these things I have seen

HEAD gaskets Blown on cars with no other problmes - EG perfect service history - Automatics -little old lady owners

Fuel pump failures have risen - especialy on the Ford Falcons common but more common.

Fuel filters drained left over night - WATER found even sometimes with in 2 hours it settles that quick

Hose's failing- spark plugs failing causeing rought idel.

I'm all for these fuels because I've used Methanol and ethanol blends before up to 95%.

when I had Litres of Methanol/ Nitro methane from R/C racing I had 20L drum - I had old R31 pintara panel shop car. hmm - oil was so sludged it was crap, was told keep water in it.
I didn't want to fill it. So I filled it with 2 year old R/C fuel brand new drum I had.

Car never got hot - ran hard as. I think it make an extra 20 KW's

but ah the car did catch on fire 1 month latter in the shop. fuel hose

But it did great burnouts after the majic liquid went in.

Like all methanol cars the problem with ethanol is it's okay in small amounts and when it does NOT SIT.
It attracts moisture - and will eat some rubbers if left to sit or has water in it.

[RibZe]

E10 is not supposed to be used in any Mazda pre-2005.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by NaughtyGT

This brings me to another point Tony. You'd really only consider the ethanol fuels in performance applications @ this stage?I feel only the boosted or highly worked NA cars would really benefit? Not saying they wouldn't benefit @ all just if you weren't after the performance properties of the ethanol fuel, it wouldn't make too much difference in a stock application would it ie: SC = 35Nm torque due to available brute hp but a stock engine may only see increased power gain by 5Nm in similar driving pattern? See where I'm going? I dunno but I believe it's just boosting the sugar industry using ethanol added fuels. Interesting about the tuning need though in this case that I overlooked.

i dont understand what you are asking
if you are talkin about using E10 in a normal car normal application, i dont think that the economy loss will be justified by the cheaper price.. i mean i did some data on how much petrol i use on E10/100 and on 91/100 and (since my car isnt tuned for E10) i was spending just enough more to negate the cheaper price. if i tuned the car i could have been spending less (still more than with 91) but enough so that it is cheaper at the end. but the lower power content of the fuel, i personaly dont think it is worth the effort re-tuning a stock car for everyday driving to run on E10 as ignition advance can only do so much, i think to get more power/economy, a different comp ratio is needed on everyday cars. thats why i can justify this for a track/drag or any race car since you will be reworking the engine any way (ideally)

Originally Posted by RibZe

E10 is not supposed to be used in any Mazda pre-2005.

and yet
http://www.mazda.com.au/Owners/Motor...ity-Chart.aspx (this only includes cars currently for sale)

there is another list of all mazda australia cars that is not on the mazda website that covers cars pre 99 (as the MPV is the oldest model still for sale apparently) and it goes like this
(from http://www.onlinemechanical.net/ethanol-E10.html)
Mazda Mazda 323 (1994 onwards), Mazda 323 (2001 onwards), Mazda2 (11/02 onwards), Mazda3 (ALL), Premacy (5/02 onwards), Mazda6 (8/02 onwards), 800M &Millenia (8/98 onwards), MX5 (1998 onwards), RX-8 (7/03 onwards), MPV (8/99 onwards), Tribute (ALL), and E series (2002 fuel injected models onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.All of the models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

[NaughtyGT]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

i dont understand what you are asking
if you are talkin about using E10 in a normal car normal application, i dont think that the economy loss will be justified by the cheaper price.. i mean i did some data on how much petrol i use on E10/100 and on 91/100 and (since my car isnt tuned for E10) i was spending just enough more to negate the cheaper price. if i tuned the car i could have been spending less (still more than with 91) but enough so that it is cheaper at the end. but the lower power content of the fuel, i personaly dont think it is worth the effort re-tuning a stock car for everyday driving to run on E10 as ignition advance can only do so much, i think to get more power/economy, a different comp ratio is needed on everyday cars. thats why i can justify this for a track/drag or any race car since you will be reworking the engine any way (ideally)

no, what I was driving @ was it would only pay you to use the higher ethanol/methanol fuels for the "noticeably" higher results as in torque it produces up top in a track/race/drag car, as opposed to negligible economy on your daily stocker if there was a chance damage outweighed economy?

Originally Posted by 70NYD

there is another list of all mazda australia cars that is not on the mazda website that covers cars pre 99 (as the MPV is the oldest model still for sale apparently) and it goes like this
(from http://www.onlinemechanical.net/ethanol-E10.html)
Mazda Mazda 323 (1994 onwards), Mazda 323 (2001 onwards), Mazda2 (11/02 onwards), Mazda3 (ALL), Premacy (5/02 onwards), Mazda6 (8/02 onwards), 800M &Millenia (8/98 onwards), MX5 (1998 onwards), RX-8 (7/03 onwards), MPV (8/99 onwards), Tribute (ALL), and E series (2002 fuel injected models onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.All of the models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

thanks for info is it really that bad with just 10% ethanol or am I still missing the point I havn't studied it that much yet due to being snowed under with enough crap to sink the Titanic......