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Old 15-01-2009, 09:02 AM   #1
bourbon
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Windows 7 beta

so whos usingthis ??? im in the process of cleaning up a hard drive to use it...i know chicaboo has got it downloaded as well...

what are your thoughts???
any issues so far???
and do you play games on it, if so does the game feel like its not lagging as much??? (heard theres no real noticable difference)
what were you using? (windows 3.0, xp, vista etc.)
is the best one out so far???
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Old 15-01-2009, 09:08 AM   #2
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I prolly won't get this installed til Sunday. It's not going into a very grunty machine (unless I swap a video card...), so I may not be able to compare games performance or compatibility.

After reading some forums, I've decided to install the 64bit platform (I downloaded both 32 & 64bit). I had always told myself I would go to 64bit on the next OS release (mostly in part from regreting not doing so with Vista...).

I won't be able to exploit the 64bit enhancements given the specs of the spare PC:
Intel 2.2C2D CPU
1GB DDR2 RAM
80GB HDD
ATi X1600 video card?

For testing purposes I can pop in an ATi HD4850 and see how it goes, but the limited RAM will cripple performance I expect. Fortunately they reckon 7 is less resource intensive than XP! Gotta wonder why it has higher specification requirements though...?

Gav.
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Old 15-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #3
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have run it in a virtual PC session under XP, looks pretty and its a bit easier to use. but i still couldn't be bothered. XP was perfectly fine for 99% of jobs and still is. plus win7 is really Vista minus some bugs.

businesses will still resist because XP is doing everything for them and upgrading means downtime or overpaid IT guys 'like me' to do afterhours rollouts. and in this current economic climate what business is going to want to lash out on their computers?

i've been in corporate IT for close to 5 years and i've learned 1 basic principle. IT does not make a company money, it costs money. and companies will NEVER spend money unless they absolutely have to. we still run windows 2000 servers here because we don't NEED to upgrade to 2003 or 2008 or whatever MS brings out every 3 years.

as much as MS wants home users on the Win7 bandwagon, it makes its most profit from businesses buying hundreds/thousands of licenses. often without individual media/boxes. so they are being paid cash for something intangible, how good is that!

so yeh Vista was a fail with like 5% business uptake and every IT pro lining up to crap on it. they think they can just pull Vista version 2 and think it will work this time.

hell our workplace is currently moving to a platform where we host everything on terminal servers and the end users will be given eeePCs or eeeBOXs. we could run our end users on a linux platform to be honest and only need MS in the back end. for general home users, operating system upgrades are BS.
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Old 15-01-2009, 10:04 AM   #4
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If you take Vista and Server out of the equation for a moment (your points being quite valid), and just look at Windows 7 for the home user, it's a different story. But yes, in our company making the change would have meant replacing the licences for our CAD software, which was incompatible with Vista/server. I shudder to think what it would have been like in companies that have custom software with with poorly written executeables, etc...

Already in Windows 7 beta we can see the benefits of WARP10 over DX10.1 (look it up), and the official beta release already matches/betters Vista SP1 for 3dmark, winstone, and other benchmarks. The way it uses memory is heaps better too. But this is all academic until I have my hands on it with it running video drivers made for this platform...

Gav.
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Old 15-01-2009, 10:41 AM   #5
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im on windows 7 now...and it seems quiet quick...alot quicker than vista home basic...and **** loads faster than XP

i like it
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Old 15-01-2009, 10:53 AM   #6
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Do you know anything about how compatible it is with games? That was basically why I never went to Vista (aside from all the crap that runs in the background, annoying security, etc).
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Old 15-01-2009, 10:55 AM   #7
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what games ya play?
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Old 15-01-2009, 11:05 AM   #8
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At the moment the major steam games, ie: Counter-Strike Source, Day of Defeat Source, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead; first or third person shooters like Far Cry, Max Payne 1 and 2, FEAR, the various Unreal Tournaments etc, and I'll get Bioshock at some point; RPGs like Oblivion, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, Baldur's Gate 2 + Throne of Baal, Jade Empire, and I plan on getting Planescape Torment at some point; racers like NSF: Underground; occasionally strategy games like Dawn of War, starcraft, etc.

I'm probably more concerned about newer games, like Fallout 3, Crysis, Call of Duty 4 and the like. The advantage of XP is that all the bugs have already been patched, whereas with a newer version they'll only just be starting to be found. But I might put Windows 7 on a spare machine out of curiosity...
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Old 15-01-2009, 11:07 AM   #9
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you do know you can dual boot i am so if worst comes to worst you can always swap back to older operating system
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Old 15-01-2009, 11:08 AM   #10
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holy ****. nice game collection mate
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Old 15-01-2009, 04:42 PM   #11
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on wikipedia it says that windows 7 was built as a successor on XP, but due to something (i didnt read that far in lol) vista (which is the basic version of 7) was released 1st, and new 7 which was leaked on 27th dec is released as a incrimental upgrade to vista, meaning all of drivers, hardware and software will work on it that worked on vista.. so you should b fine there. games usually arnt a problem anyway cus directx is backwards compatible anyway
but i was looking at the screenshots of it and it looks like vista so what is it just fater?? cus im running 4GB of ddr2 ram and vista is fine for me, but if i can get it faster performance from 7 i might go for it ay


DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW LONG WILL 7 BE A BETA BEFORE WE HAVE TO PAY FOR IT???
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Old 15-01-2009, 04:56 PM   #12
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Could take any amount of time for a release date, they don't plan to release Office 14 till 2010. I hope they arnt in a hurry, cos when they are they just **** everything up. Example: xbox360, i have the black elite and it rocks, they finally got it right by four generation, but that's how they roll, and make alot of money

Btw: i have "obtained" it but haven't got around to dual booting it, might get into it tonite.
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Old 15-01-2009, 05:34 PM   #13
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Games don't stop working across different Operating Systems because of DirectX.
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Old 15-01-2009, 05:45 PM   #14
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ummm windows 7 is due for release about december or jan but some reports mid next year...
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Old 15-01-2009, 06:04 PM   #15
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Since they have just released an official working beta to the public with a 6 month trial licence, I wouldn't be surprised if they aim to release it for the end of this year so they can fill ppl's Christmas stockings with a big kick in initial sales. It might all depend on how the GFC* goes though... All reports state that this beta is better (ie: more stable) and faster than Vista pre SP1 (and XP!).

Gav.

*You work it out...
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Old 15-01-2009, 06:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo View Post
If you take Vista and Server out of the equation for a moment (your points being quite valid), and just look at Windows 7 for the home user, it's a different story. But yes, in our company making the change would have meant replacing the licences for our CAD software, which was incompatible with Vista/server. I shudder to think what it would have been like in companies that have custom software with with poorly written executeables, etc...

Already in Windows 7 beta we can see the benefits of WARP10 over DX10.1 (look it up), and the official beta release already matches/betters Vista SP1 for 3dmark, winstone, and other benchmarks. The way it uses memory is heaps better too. But this is all academic until I have my hands on it with it running video drivers made for this platform...

Gav.
agreed on your last paragraph. i've heard nothing but praise for its speed and resource use.

also vista drivers on 7 so it should be an easy port if you're already on vista. sadly MS aren't going to release anything to help you upgrade from XP which may kill a little bit of enthusiasm on some parts.

i think it'll get quite good uptake by home users honestly. i'm just kind of chuffed that MS actually listened. they spent years developing Vista, release it to poor reviews, incapable machines and and low uptake and DON'T just say 'deal with it, here's some patches' and start working on the next release for release in 5 years time.
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Old 15-01-2009, 06:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derb View Post
i'm just kind of chuffed that MS actually listened. they spent years developing Vista, release it to poor reviews, incapable machines and and low uptake and DON'T just say 'deal with it, here's some patches' and start working on the next release for release in 5 years time.
I think the biggest problem with Vista was it's limited compatibility with older hardware, and by older I mean anything manufactured before the 2nd half of 2006 potentially. I have one such older system running Vista, and it was a mess until I learned what Vista liked. And Vista likes to be in control. So the simple answer for most older hardware was NOT to install mobo and chipset drivers (assuming they were even available for Vista...), and let Vista manage these through updates, etc... Now, that same PC that gave me problems, runs like a dream with Vista SP1.

I ran XP for years, and also put up with BSODs for that whole time! So the XP fanbois that have never made the jump to Vista, can't quite grasp how good and stable an OS, SP1 is. The guys that argue about game performance might have a point, but it's not a huge difference. The only regular problem I have had with Vista over the last year is IE7 crashes... ATi CrossfireX owner's will know another problem that ATi have buried themselves with since Catalyst 8.10hotfix/8.11 was introduced.

I can't wait to try out Windows 7 on my spare PC. And if it's good enough, I will put a 2nd HDD in my main PC and launch it off the bios HDD boot option.

Gav.
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Old 15-01-2009, 06:58 PM   #18
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this was just written up today on my gaming forums...good read...

Quote:
Windows 7 vs Windows Vista vs Windows XP
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~


System Info...
Intel E8500 @ 4.03GHz (425*9.5)
Gigabyte EP45-DS3 F7
2x2GB G.Skill PQ @ 850MHz 5-5-5-15
HD4870X2 @ 750/900MHz
Cat8.12 official drivers (including Win7, no hotfix)
WD 160GB (Win7/XP) & WD 640GB (Vista)

Settings...
Left4Dead & Call of Duty 4: 1920x1200 4xAA, Maximum detail. Timedemo looped till consistant.
Crysis: 1920x1200 0xAA, "High" detail, DX9, 32-bit. Best of 4 runs.

Notes...
Boot times were recorded from power on to OS idle and ready, after games, drivers and software was installed and HDD defragged. The Catalyst Control Panel was always last thing to load up so once the fan speed on the X2 ramped up, that was the indication it was ready.
I didn't run Vista on the 160GB because i had to format my main drive anyway and didn't want to do it twice just for a boot time run. Safe to say there could be a few seconds added on top in comparison to the 160GB.
It goes without saying, Windows7 is a BETA so don't take these figures to be final. Performance is likely to improve further because for one, i'm using Vista video drivers...
I noted the Vram usage in the XP tests out of curiosity sake. These were recorded with Rivatuner 2.22.
Software used from standard (including bootup) was Rivatuner, Catalyst Control Panel & Logitech 3.01 keyboard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

Windows 7 Ultimate BETA 7000 build 64-bit

Left4Dead - l4d_bench.dem
Run1: 116fps
Run2: 117fps
Run3: 123fps (alttab)
Run4: 123fps

COD4 - lankerus1.dem
Run1: 136fps
Run2: 136fps
Run3: 135fps (alttab)

Crysis - GPU_benchmark
Min: 39fps
Avg: 51fps
Max: 67fps

Boot time - 1:15 (superfetch enabled)*
*will test with it disabled soon.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

Windows XP Pro SP3 32-bit

Left4Dead - l4d_bench.dem (470MB Vram)
Run1: 137fps
Run2: 139fps
Run3: 139fps
Run4: 141fps
Run5: 139fps

COD4 - lankerus1.dem (500MB Vram)
Run1: 145fps
Run2: 145fps
Run3: 144fps (alttab)

Crysis - GPU_benchmark (450MB Vram) (700MB Vram 4xAA)
Min: 32fps
Avg: 49fps
Max: 62fps

Boot time - 1:12

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~

Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 64-bit

Left4Dead - l4d_bench.dem
Run1: 117fps
Run2: 108fps (alttab)
Run3: 117fps
Run4: 118fps

COD4 - lankerus1.dem
Run1: 134fps
Run2: 136fps
Run3: 137fps
Run4: 137fps

Crysis - GPU_benchmark
Min: 24fps
Avg: 50fps
Max: 65fps

Boot time - 1:25 (without superfetch)*
*this install was done on the WD640 which is a quicker drive than the WD160. Didn't want to install Vista on the bench drive and then again on the main drive.

Conclusion and stuff...
Well, i'm very impressed with Windows 7 even in BETA format. I've still got to post up a video i took on how it alt+tabs out of a game which is nothing short of instant. 7 is a refined, cut down and toned version of Vista, which is exactly what Vista needed. Whilst XP's idle RAM usage is somewhere around the 400MB vicinity and Vista's from memory is around 1000MB, Win7 sits somewhere in the middle at around 800MB so those "RAM whore" haters should be a little more pleased.

Performance wise the system felt very snappy and very smooth. I didn't delve too far into it and haven't had much of a chance to play around but it certainly does give off that "speed of XP, looks of Vista" impression. Left4Dead and COD4 certainly did perform better on XP than it did on Win7, albeit at levels far beyond necessary frame rates, however i must remind you that this is BETA and on Vista drivers. Who knows what kind of performance increase we can expect with proper Win7 drivers and with 6-12 months of further development. Interestingly enough, yet not so surprisingly, Crysis performed best on Win7 out of all 3 systems. I'm going to assume this is because of two things; for one, XP is 32-bit and left me with a total of 2.75GB after the X2 helped itself to a large chunk of that 4GB. The other thing is given that even Vista performed better than XP did i'm going to generalise it down to new, high-tech gaming engines perform better on new, high-tech operating systems. Whether or not Vista's shared video memory plays a big role in this performance increase, i'm not sure. Interestingly enough though and contrary to the point, COD4 used the most Vram out of all 3 games (on XP), so i'm really left high and dry as to why Crysis runs better. One thing's for certain though, i will definitely be throwing a tonne more games at Win7 once retail is out!

There are a few minor cosmetic changes to get used to but most of it's just customisable so it can be tinkered to suit. I'm not sure how much/if things will change from BETA to Retail versions but i think aside from getting used to it, it should work quite well in the end.

Cheers
for the full thing visit http://games.on.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=159517
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Old 15-01-2009, 06:59 PM   #19
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whats wrong with xfire setups? i run 2 4850s. i reckon xp is stable, i overclock and rarely have trouble. i've got more trouble with ****ty onboard RAID arrays degrading than with BSODs.
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Old 15-01-2009, 07:56 PM   #20
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Bourbon: Those are impressive gains for W7 on Crysis. But when you consider that the driver's are not optimised for W7, you can then appreciate the results!

Derb: HD4850CFX has had issues with initialising in Vista 32/64bit since the introduction of the Catalyst 8.10hotfix and 8.11 drivers. It has to do with the ATi External Event setting in boot.ini, and this needs to be manually disabled after installing the drivers before Vista will boot without a BSOD. One can then enable Crossfire and then reboot and set the ATi External Event back on.

Cheers, Gav.
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