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Old 06-08-2013, 07:53 PM   #141
Orion
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Yearly Update

Sooo ....... its been a long time since this was updated

To be honest, I have had a bit on. New job, got married earlier this year, honeymoon, then came back and have been catching up on things that were put to the side getting ready for the wedding.

In the last 10 months, some things have been happening:
- sold flywheel, bought new flywheel, machined and balanced new flywheel
- installed RX-7 brake master cylinder and braided lines (can't find photos)
- had injectors serviced, still working on the fuel rail and fittings
- bought various bits and pieces getting ready for the rebuild

So, with not much happening I decided to bite the bullet and try to get some motivation but booking in the engine at the machine shop. She will be going in next Wednesday and (hopefully) a month after that I will have the crank, rods and pistons in the block. This will allow me to start slowly adding on accessories and generally keep things moving.

I have updated the first page with some new details, so don't forget to go looking there before you ask any questions.

Cheers all and I hope to be able to put some more regular updates for the rest of the year
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
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Old 14-10-2013, 12:45 PM   #142
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Short block is assembled! :)

Some great news on the progress of the engine build. All of the rotating assembly has been balanced and is now assembled within the block. First some engine block pron:






As part of the build, I ordered undersized main and rod bearings, which meant that the crank was machined to fit the bearings, rather than trying to find bearings that would fit the various journal clearances available. This should mean that all of the clearances are fairly consistent and on the slightly tighter end of the recommended factory tolerances.

The next steps will be to start adding in all of the accessories, brackets and other items that I already have lying around. Some items such as the oil pressure and temp sensors are already off the car, so I will be able to start plugging up a lot of the bits and pieces over the next few months

I hope to get on a roll and keep this moving for the next few months before the end of the year.

Cheers, Darryl.
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild

Last edited by Orion; 13-08-2014 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 17-10-2013, 10:28 AM   #143
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Is that at TDC by chance Darryl?

Its curious to note the differences in the valve recess design between your pistons and my pistons. Make me curious as to what the benefits and negatives are of each if there are any.
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Old 16-02-2014, 10:19 PM   #144
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6 month update

So, not much has happened in the last 6 months with the car - you might say things have gone a bit backwards (but to go forwards in the end). About 3 months ago an intermittent ignition issue arose and I had to get the car towed back home.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, we took the Microtech out because I was too frustrated with not having a car. In doing so we discovered that the ignition issue was caused by a simple loose plug. I have also pulled out the remote oil filter off the car and running the oil filter off the block.

All of these activities are intended to allow some further development of the parts in preparation for the big engine to go in. I will need to place the remote oil filter in a different location to accommodate the oil pressure regulator and I have always wanted to make a better mount for the Microtech gear in the centre console. Also I pulled my modded radio surround out so that I can add my new MTX-L wideband gauge in there.

So, on to the new stuff that has gone for the car. Sad to say, it is not much - but it is progress. Primarily, the part that I want to show off is a modded flywheel. I currently have the Fidanza flywheel installed in my current ride and with the big cams and the fuziness of the Microtech in idle conditions, sometimes driving around was difficult. While I loved the responsiveness provided by the Fidanza, other elements such as rev drop off and idle quality.

So, while I didn't want to go back to the stock flywheel as that is too heavy and would diminish the performance of the new engine. So, after some research, it appears that something in the middle of the stock and Fidanza weights would be ideal. I believe that the Mazdaspeed Familia flywheel is about 13 pounds, which is about this halfway mark. So, I had my clutch shop have a go at machining weight off a stock flywheel to try to replicate this. The end result was good, with the stock flywheel taken from 8.3kg (18 pounds) down to 6.2kg (13.5 pounds).

Here are some photos of the machined flywheel:




Hopefully, this will provide a better balance between performance and drivability

Hopefully, I will have an update with some progress on putting the engine together. Thanks again for looking guys
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild

Last edited by Orion; 13-08-2014 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 16-02-2014, 11:45 PM   #145
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nope... the MSF flywheel is 7.4kg
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...k-MSP-flywheel

6.2kg is a good sweet spot though, but at compromised strength


also, if the engine had no issues to begin with before you rebuilt it, you shouldn't have needed to turn the crankshaft down for undersized bearings... all FROM THE FACTORY bearings uses standard size, not undersized at all... only time you use undersized is during a rebuild and the crankshaft is stuffed... I haven't seen one go bad except for when the engine spun its bearings... the stock forged crank is very strong, so under no normal circumstances should it wear out of spec!

just so you know, when you remove material from the crankshaft, it reduces overall strength... this matters of course if you're building a very high power or high RPM motor
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Old 17-02-2014, 09:14 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMAN View Post
nope... the MSF flywheel is 7.4kg
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...k-MSP-flywheel

6.2kg is a good sweet spot though, but at compromised strength


also, if the engine had no issues to begin with before you rebuilt it, you shouldn't have needed to turn the crankshaft down for undersized bearings... all FROM THE FACTORY bearings uses standard size, not undersized at all... only time you use undersized is during a rebuild and the crankshaft is stuffed... I haven't seen one go bad except for when the engine spun its bearings... the stock forged crank is very strong, so under no normal circumstances should it wear out of spec!

just so you know, when you remove material from the crankshaft, it reduces overall strength... this matters of course if you're building a very high power or high RPM motor
I'm probably incorrect, but why would you need to machine down a crank to use undersized bearings?

I read that as I used larger bearings that required the crank to be machined down. This makes more sense as using larger bearings would require the crank to machine to spec. Further it would also be better for a high rpm engine.
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Old 17-02-2014, 09:44 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice88 View Post
I'm probably incorrect, but why would you need to machine down a crank to use undersized bearings?

I read that as I used larger bearings that required the crank to be machined down. This makes more sense as using larger bearings would require the crank to machine to spec. Further it would also be better for a high rpm engine.
+1

also WOW 6.2 kgs thats the same weight as my BP lighten stock flywheel. as i couldnt get an aftermarket on for my build
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Old 17-02-2014, 11:44 AM   #148
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I feel like I've had the crank journal discussion before but as a recap - I didn't know what condition the engine/crank was in when I got it so I basically decided to start from scratch. This meant a slight overbore on the pistons and getting the crank ground down slightly so that I could use a single set of uniform bearings. Ie the bearings were measured and the crank ground to match and provide a consistent clearance rather than mixing and matching bearings to get the clearances within a certain range.

@Kris: I believe they are termed undersized because the crank journal gets smaller. As opposed to oversize pistons where the bore gets bigger. Also, you used different rods, so that may be why you had to use bigger bearings.

@ Mat - considering that the Fidanza is under 3.5kg, the modified stock flywheel is about halfway. Also, much of the weight has come off the edge of the flywheel which should provide the most benefit.

@ Edwin - The clutch shop did mention the reduced strength but they were happy with the work and I don't expect to be hammering any gear changes. The other alternative was to have a custom flywheel made up to whatever weight I wanted at twice the price
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild
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Old 17-02-2014, 01:07 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Orion View Post
@Kris: I believe they are termed undersized because the crank journal gets smaller. As opposed to oversize pistons where the bore gets bigger. Also, you used different rods, so that may be why you had to use bigger bearings.
Yeah that makes sense. Be nice if the logic was uniform

I could have used normal 3SGTE bearings but PLR suggested using thicker bearings for much the same reason.
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Old 17-02-2014, 08:15 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice88 View Post
I'm probably incorrect, but why would you need to machine down a crank to use undersized bearings?

I read that as I used larger bearings that required the crank to be machined down. This makes more sense as using larger bearings would require the crank to machine to spec. Further it would also be better for a high rpm engine.
thicker bearings = undersized bearings
the terminology is in reference to the journal sizes, NOT the bearings
conversely, for pistons, when you bore out a block and have to use larger pistons/rings, those are called "oversized"... confusing, but that is the way it is called

and why would a turned down crank be better for high RPMs? you're reducing the material in the load bearing parts of the crankshaft for strength... yeah, it's a lighter rotating mass, but at reduced strength! high rpm lateral forces exerted on the crank + harmonics will stuff a motor quick on parts machined down rather than purpose made specifically for the application... this is very different than knife edging crankshafts and reducing materials in the counter balances in the crankshaft as they do not serve as much load bearing as the journals.... now, just think of why many high powered engines have beefy, large crankshaft and conrod journals?

you have much to learn young grasshopper
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Old 17-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
I feel like I've had the crank journal discussion before but as a recap - I didn't know what condition the engine/crank was in when I got it so I basically decided to start from scratch. This meant a slight overbore on the pistons and getting the crank ground down slightly so that I could use a single set of uniform bearings. Ie the bearings were measured and the crank ground to match and provide a consistent clearance rather than mixing and matching bearings to get the clearances within a certain range.

@Kris: I believe they are termed undersized because the crank journal gets smaller. As opposed to oversize pistons where the bore gets bigger. Also, you used different rods, so that may be why you had to use bigger bearings.

@ Mat - considering that the Fidanza is under 3.5kg, the modified stock flywheel is about halfway. Also, much of the weight has come off the edge of the flywheel which should provide the most benefit.

@ Edwin - The clutch shop did mention the reduced strength but they were happy with the work and I don't expect to be hammering any gear changes. The other alternative was to have a custom flywheel made up to whatever weight I wanted at twice the price
machining the crank was likely unnecessary like I said... you could've simply bought a plastigauge kit and measure what the clearances as is before you sent the engine off to the machinist... if they were within mazda's specs, it would most definitely be in tighter clearances once you got new bearings in it.... it's all simple to deal with, really

too late now, but just so others here will know this for their own builds
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Old 17-02-2014, 11:09 PM   #152
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Like I said before Edwin - using the specs of each bearing set, the journals were machined to a more precise clearance rather than being in a wider spec range. Is this overkill? - yes. Should this be done on the regular rebuild? - no. I decided this is the path I wanted to take and have done so.

Sure, reducing the cross-sectional area of the journals, which will reduce its strength to a degree. I highly doubt that this will compromise the overall strength of the crank - you yourself said there haven't been reported cases of cranks breaking. This has nothing to do with weight reduction and all to do with setting specific clearances.

As you've said, it's all done and dusted now. It's not necessary for most but it's what I wanted and I'm happy with it. Let's move on with the next part of the build
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
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Old 13-08-2014, 03:13 PM   #153
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Must be time for a six month update

One thing I have been doing over the last two weeks is moving all the photos for the build log from Imageshack to Photobucket as the former has started charging for their service. This gave me the opportunity to sort through a few broken links and also resize some of the photos to something more comfortable to view. With this mostly now done, I can share a few more pics on some of the work that has happened recently.

It must have been 3-4 weeks ago but Zappy came over and helped me put some of the bits and pieces I had laying around onto the short-block. This helped clear some space for me and also was useful in planning the next pieces that need to go on.

Without any more babbling here are some pics and a brief description of what work went on is given below:







Things done:
- Had to swap a couple of crankshaft bearing plates around as the shop had put them on in the incorrect order (despite them being labelled in order)
- Put the Main Bearing Support Plate (MBSP) on (twice because of the issue above)
- Put the water pump, thermostat housing and timing belt pulleys on
- Put the oil filter relocator block adaptor on, along with the MSP oil cooler port
- Put the stock oil pressure switch and Autometer oil pressure sensor on using a T adaptor
- Put the factory knock sensor on
- Put the ARP headstuds on, but these will need to be loosen as they were initially put on too tight (they only need to be just tightened for these engines)

Next projects will be:
- Put oil temp sensor in the oil pan just above the drain plug
- Put a Pro-Vent valve on the oil dipstick tube for future use
- Swap the big cams and water neck (with the extra temp sensor in it) out of the engine in the car
- Get the cylinder head machined with a very mild port (just to balance the individual cylinder flows)

Hopefully these thing can be done this year
Stay tuned
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild
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Old 13-08-2014, 05:15 PM   #154
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Much love for this build.
Your sticking with the microtech for the new mill? No insinuations, just curious
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Old 15-08-2014, 09:22 AM   #155
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I dont know if he is, but just as adaptronics etc have a wealth of knowledge and posts out there for BPs the same is true for microtechs. Really dont get why you wouldnt when the tacho, air con etc etc all work with the microtech.

Getting those working with the adaptronics getting to be a pain in the ass. If i had my time again I'd run the microtech
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Old 15-08-2014, 10:19 AM   #156
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The good tuners I know are reluctant to tune an adapt. If you dont give it to them purring already
the microrech is well received. Curious of its magical qualities??
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Old 16-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #157
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Its old and been around the traps forever.
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Old 02-09-2014, 09:43 PM   #158
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Got another project out of the way over the last couple of weeks. I want to try a couple of different points for measuring the oil temperature. I have previously had my oil temp sensor in the oil filter relocation block (filter end) and the readings seemed to be pretty good there.

I now want to see if I get different readings when the oil temp sensor is in the oil pan. I intend to get this comparison by seeing what the maximum temps are and as important, how fast the oil around the sensor warms up.

I purchased an adapter that screws into the oil pan drain hole and allows a 1/8 NPT sensor to the threaded into this location. I might put the sensor there in the future but it seems a bit inconvenient when changing oil (which I will be doing fairly regularly when running the engine in).

As a more preferred location, I had a 1/8 NPT bung welded into the oil pan inbetween where the oil will drain back into the pan from both the oil filter and the external oil pressure regulator return. The idea is that this will read the oil temp coming back into the pan and be able to indicate increases in temp fairly quickly.

Anyway, enough yapping. Here are two photos - the first one is the oil pan sanded down and a locator hole for the bung to be welded in; the second photo is the completed oil pan with the bung welded in and painted.





I was thinking satin black for the paint but am happy with the gloss black none the less.

Thanks for looking and stay tuned for another update tomorrow or Thursday night. The next update is quite cool (I think) and will let me keep steady progress going on putting the engine together
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild

Last edited by Orion; 02-09-2014 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 11:09 PM   #159
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So this happened ...



I was getting frustrated that the engine stand was getting in the way of putting on more accessories for the engine. So i came up with a hair-brained scheme to build my own stand that would be simplier. I was worried about how strong it needed to be, but after putting the engine on I have every confidence that it will be fine.

Oh, and thanks to Kris (Ice88) for helping me lift the engine off the old stand and onto the new. Cheers

The biggest advantage is this ...



Having this stand instead of the normal engine stand means that I can work completely around the engine. This will allow me to mount up the flywheel and clutch, install the all of the coolant system on the gearbox side.

This should mean more steady progress on getting the engine ready while I wait to get the cylinder head and a few other smaller projects done. Hopefully there will be a substantial update in the not too distant future
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild
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Old 15-12-2014, 02:29 PM   #160
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I'm not sure if you would call this progress (because it has made my car slower) but the big Twiggy cams were removed from the engine in the car. Here is a picture of them just before they were removed:



I will take these cams along with my project cylinder head which will be getting machined at the start of next year. I might just get this engine into the car in the next 12 months
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Exhaust: Autoexe headers; Custom midpipe; Racing Beat catback
Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild
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