Where do i start? - Advice wanted

[KittyKatSmack]

[color=#000000ost_uid9]I love my 94 Astina, but after driving her for near on 18 months it's time to give her some zing!

So..... where do I start?
She is totally standard. Some pretty alloys (only 14") and cruise control is about it.

Now I am not rich either, so gotta keep the spending real for the moment. I can build up to bigger and better things later in the year, but not before October.

Option 1.
Exhaust.... Would putting the exhaust from the 2L V6 do anything for performance? What about a resonator? Changing the cat? Headers would be nice but a bit too $$$ at the moment, but doesn't mean I can't start at the back end and work towards the front.

Option 2.
Intake....
Cold Air Intake System? How?

Option 3.
Timing

OK, so as you can see I am looking at starting somewhere small and working my way up.

Just please please please don't say "get the turbo motor mate" coz that's all anyone seems to say to me ??? ???

And advice, direction, parts idea's, price ideas etc would be really really appreciated!!!
[/colorost_uid9]

[sirex]

[color=#0000FFost_uid0]The general order of performance modifcations is I/H/E.

Start by removing the standard airbox and piping a pod. If the budget allows buy a proper stainless steel intake pipe as well.

Headers is next, but you can't afford them yet so just put them to the side.

Exhaust, this is where the fun begins. There is so much variation available. Ideally you would want a 2 1/4" pipe straight through pipe for the best exhaust flow without any back pressure. Firstly, you should get the cat cut probably around $60-$80, don't bother replacing it with another one as they are too restrictive. Resonators and coby’s do nothing for performance, but just tweak your cars exhaust note.

It would be advisable to advance the timing to gain a few more ponies, but be careful. If you advance it too far the engine will ping and can cause internal damage.

Other future mods to consider when the budget allows, would be headers, a proper exhaust system, a fuel controller, a chip (or computer upgrade), a heavy duty clutch and a lightened fly wheel, lowering springs, hardened shocks and strut braces to improve handling, etc, etc, the list is endless.

Have fun, but definitely stick to NA, IMO forced induction is the pathetic way of gaining power.[/colorost_uid0]

[Aaron]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]While I agree with the sentiments of sirex, I do have to ask:

1) Pod Filter, OK cool, so obviously you're talkign cold air intake of some desciption? Not just hanging a pod in the hottest part of the engine bay?

Is there a 'good' location that's already well documented or should we Astina owners be looking around for an area in the wheel arch, low to the ground for mounting the pod then ducting it up into the intake? I'm presuming she doesn't want to cut metal to get this happening?

2) Gutting the Cat or removing it.... What state do live in dude? this is like mega-illegal and really given the fairly low price of replacement cats (assuming the stocker is not flowing well enough) probably dancing with the devil for most.

So have people found that running a single rear box sufficient, or is it was to keep a free flowing resonator or two under the car to keep the noise (inside and out) down? Trying to cover the 'stealth' high-flow exhaust school of thought here?

I've read that headers really to open up the performance potential, are there many Aussie made versions or are we bound to importing from the USA/Japan? I've heard Genie make a nice set?

3) The timing thing, I guess there's a few things to be learnt from teh MX-5 boys there any 'safe' numbers flaoting around - I've heard as high as 16 degrees additional advance can be cranked in when running PULP, sounds high to me considering the engine blows I've seen IT-Rs do on 9 degrees base advance... Maybe 3-4 would give a nice safe kick? Ofcourse a Mazda isn't an IT-R


*p[odners* I'm just trying to parallel my findings for other cars I've had and match them to what the Mazda needs/wants [/colorost_uid0]

[BigMal]

[color=#000000ost_uid1]Go for a panel over the pod filter. *No hassles with
the police and with some nice ducting into a cut hole
in the bottom of the airbox will flow well enough for a
N/A's needs. *$110 approx for the filter and say $10
for some ducting. *Dan took some photo's of doing a
cold air intake think they are under one of the melbourne
cruises. *

2nd, Run PULP and advance the timing by 3-4 degree's
I ran mine for ages with no problems and no ping but I
always ran the premium no half/half or second tank crap.

3rd Exhaust, agree with 2 1/4. *Keep the cat it doesn't
flow that bad, the speed at which I can hit boost cut
of 11psi with my exhaust including cat it cant be that bad.
I think the setup Mik has is good so will let him explain that
one.

This will make the car nippy but not fast. If you want
anything more than nippy then turbo is the wisest move.
Chips over here are very expensive as they are not chips
but reprogrammed whole computers. *Chiptorque wanted
$700 plus dyno time when I asked them before I went turbo.
Headers are nice and make a slight difference but its not
in proportion to the money spent eg like when you do the
exhaust itself. *Nothing after the first 3 give you the same
bang for your buck its all <10kw increase and for around $500
each I don't think is worth it.

Hope this helps

Mal[/colorost_uid1]

[sirex]

[quoteost_uid0="Aaron"][color=#000000ost_uid0]While I agree with the sentiments of sirex, I do have to ask:

1) *Pod Filter, OK cool, so obviously you're talkign cold air intake of some desciption? *Not just hanging a pod in the hottest part of the engine bay?

2) *Gutting the Cat or removing it.... *What state do live in dude? *this is like mega-illegal and really given the fairly low price of replacement cats (assuming the stocker is not flowing well enough) probably dancing with the devil for most. *[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#0000FFost_uid0]True Aaron, it slipped my mind that the best place to house a pod is down in wheel arch and/or build a seperate area to prevent the hot engine air flowing into the pod.

I live in NZ and currently cat's aren't an issue. All jappa's come across with them and as many of these cars have done over 100,00km, there cats are clogged and it is easier to cut rather than replace.[/colorost_uid0]

[Cosmo Dude]

[color=#810541ost_uid0]Go is one thing. Something to think about is good tyres and effective suspension :: also the skill behind the wheel. A defensive driving course wouldn't go astray and could be looked apon in a good light by your insurer
I bought my BA with crappy front tyres and the best money I've spent was on the rubber (I had the wheels from my HB Cosmo). 6X15JJ wheels and 205/55 tyres keep the car grounded so I don't loose so much speed 'round corners.
I race mine regularly (CAMS approved racing, no street hero stuff), currently the only zoom bits are the wheels and tyres, next springs and shocks.

Rod[/colorost_uid0]

[BigBoyLemonade]

[color=#006666ost_uid0]yeah suspension can improve performance times dramatically!

The Fastest FWD is a crx.. nothing special... They just spent something like $10,000 on the suspension... it gained something like 3secs down the 1/4mile

Correct me if I am wrong...

I agree with Cosmo Dude!

My Saying is: "The best modification to a car is the driver!"[/colorost_uid0]

[bRaDiNhO]

[color=#FF0000ost_uid0]On the cat issue, if u ditch the cat altogther, u pick up about 3kw. Illegal, but thats the relative insignificance. I had a freer flowing Falcon XR cat fitted to mine and the sound was the only real difference i noted (was forced to change cat, and was under a used car warranty).

Filter - as Mal said. No point not buying one, coz if u r planning on keeping your car for a few years, u wil make back your money by not changing filters at services.

Exhaust definately makes a difference. I went 2/1/4" cat back, no resonator, and it sounds good and goes better than before. Gives it more top end, a little lazier down low.

I drove a BA (I have a BG SP) yesterday hard for my first time and nearly lost the car. It was insane how much less grip it has than my car which is riding on 15"s with very good rubber rather than 14''s with decent rubber. I don't know why the difference - obviously the wheel/ tyre combo plays a part, and ive got firmer/ lower suspension which also improved it a little bit. I'd get grip levels sorted first whether its suspension or wheels/ tyre. I know that Tempe has got 5 spoke 16's with ZE502 rubber for under $1000. Not a bad deal if u want to make the car look better and increase grip.

Just my suggestion..... u can use handling in a lot more places than acceleration.[/colorost_uid0]

[mrpayner]

[color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]On the cat issue, if u ditch the cat altogther, u pick up about 3kw[/quoteost_uid0]

I have an article in Hot4's [or something else] somewhere that says that removing the Cat does jack-diddly squat. I'll find it and put it up

Adam[/colorost_uid0]

[Toyboy]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Im with mr Payner,i heard the same **** *My exhaust place i go to aswell told me that buying a hi flow cat has a waste of money ::
He also said that the 1's on the astina flow really good standard
It pointless changing the cat unless yours is rat**** and collapsed,as for gutting it or taking it off,there are huge fines from the [bost_uid0]EPA[/bost_uid0] for doing so,last i heard it was upto $50,000 :O
Now think whether youd wana do it [/colorost_uid0]

[KittyKatSmack]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]Wowsers!

Certainly a lot of info for this gal to take in.

I am not after street cred or flat line speed here. Nippy as Mal called it is probably exactly the best way to describe it.

I am not about to do anything remotely illegal or push the limits on my insurance/warranty either. I do need to replace the tyres this year, and am dragging them out until October when I get some decent $$ to spend on them. The current 14" alloys are fine, and I see no need to go to 15" unless I have cracked or bent alloys already. I seem to lose tyre pressure as it is, and have had tests done for porous alloys and leaks, so no cracks.
I do not like hard suspension and spring set up, my tush likes to take it easy these days, but anti roll bar may get an up grade. No whaling around the corners for me. Basically I don't want an exhaust that you can hear two streets away that will attract all the rice boys and the police. I want something that purrs down low, lose the tinniness at 4-5K RPM that I already have. The Cold Air Intake should also give me some w00t factor too.
To be honest, I don't want to spend more than a grand on intake, exhaust and engine tweaking. I figure that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the way it runs now and all I am after is a bit of grin factor. I already like my car. I like to drive it and give it a poke in the guts every once in a while and have fun, but I am not a street racer or a hoon by any stretch of the imagination.
Basically, I don't know anyone that has done work on Mazda's, nor do I know of any bolt on intakes or existing parts that can give me what I am after. Ok so I get some steel pipe made to duct my air etc. I want a beautiful job done, something that won't attract attention when the bonnet is lifted. Make it look standard etc.

Basically, I want to start at the beginning and stay at the lower end of the modifications.
Baby steps please fella's.
Spending $1000 wheels and rubber is out of the question.

But I must admit all the advice you are giving me here is great information for later on down the track.

At this stage though, back to basics.
Intake ~ Parts availability? Part numbers? Stockists? Prices?
Exhaust ~ same?
What brands do you recommend? What brands to avoid?

Mental picture for you: Girl walks into exhaust shop
"er I want an exhaust that makes my car purr"
"what kind lady"
"I don't know"
"do you want a new muffler"
"someone said I need bigger pipe and a resonator"
"I see, no worries lady, we'll take care of ya" $$$$$$$$$$

Do you see what I'm getting at?

Appreciate your time though, and keep the positive input coming because I really am trying to learn it all so that I can put it all together later on.

Cheers![/colorost_uid0]

[sirex]

[quoteost_uid0="MrPayner"][color=#000000ost_uid0][quoteost_uid0]On the cat issue, if u ditch the cat altogther, u pick up about 3kw[/quoteost_uid0]

I have an article in Hot4's [or something else] somewhere that says that removing the Cat does jack-diddly squat. I'll find it and put it up

Adam[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#0000FFost_uid0]But dude, this article is controversial as those test were carried out on brand new cars thus without cloogged cats so the results diddn't differ![/colorost_uid0]

[mrpayner]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]I'll find that article, but i think from memory they did do it on a new BMW, but also an older car as well. I will look for it.

Adam[/colorost_uid0]

[mrpayner]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]OK, it's not the same article i was thinking of, but i red this as well.

This article came from the HOT4's issue number 76 [January 2002].

Go http://www.geocities.com/mrpayner/ma.../catalytic.jpg here [copy and paste] to check it out. It's formatted for 1024 display.

Adam[/colorost_uid0]

[dfvadr]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]hi kitty dont no where u r exactly but any genuine exaust place should not charge you any more then $180 for a cat back 2 to 2 an a half inch system with a sporty note if u add a bigger fancy chrome tip that may blow u out to about $235 then there r ur foot pedals u can add for around $30 to $70 depending on wat u like take ur wheels off paint ur brake calipers for a $10 pressure pack can , chrome washer nozzles for around $20 without lights , seat covers $100 the whole car , floor mats k-mart have checker plate copies in red,blue,chrome for around $39 on special a set $49 normal ill leave u with those thoughts[/colorost_uid0]

[bRaDiNhO]

[color=#FF0000ost_uid0]$180 cat back?! Wheres that from? ???

Northshore performance did a cat back 2 or 2/1/4" system with 3.5" tip for $380 or something. It is not nearly as loud or deep as mine, but is throaty down low and louder and raspy up top..... sounds pretty cool without being drony. He wasn't after the full boomy sound so sounds like what u want. That was on a BA 1.8.[/colorost_uid0]

[KittyKatSmack]

[quoteost_uid0="odd12c"][color=#000000ost_uid0]hi kitty dont no where u r exactly but any genuine exaust place should not charge you any more then $180 for a cat back 2 to 2 an a half inch system with a sporty note *if u add a bigger fancy chrome tip that may blow u out to about $235 then there r ur foot pedals u can add for around $30 to $70 *depending on wat u like *take ur wheels off paint ur brake calipers for a $10 pressure pack can , chrome washer nozzles for around $20 without lights , seat covers $100 the whole car , floor mats k-mart have checker plate copies in red,blue,chrome for around $39 on special a set $49 normal * *ill leave u with those thoughts[/colorost_uid0][/quoteost_uid0]
[color=#000000ost_uid0]Kitty is in Canberra.

Thanks for the advice on the looks side of things, but I think I have that covered already. And to be honest, there is no point having a 'beat boy' looking car if you don't have anythign to back it up with? If that makes sense without offending anyone here *ducks just in case*

Although........
(dumb girl question here)
one of my washers sends water up and over my roof!!!!
Is it stupidly easy to adjust it?

I was reading about the K&N Intake change that was done, excellent article and step by step instructions by the way, except it was done on a later model Astina.
What is the chance that the same thing will fit on the BA?

After reading about the Whiteline swaybar BMR53 20mm, I will definately be doing that for a mere $160 or so.
My boyfriend and some of his friends can do it themselves so that saves me the simple fitting cost. Keeping those prices down down down!!!!!!!!

Will keep my cat methinks. Those fines are pretty hefty!
I recently had the 'engine pipe' changed for genuine Mazda part (read: RIPPED OFF) and that is main reason for waiting on the headers. But if I am not after break neck speed then the pipe should be adequate enough for the moment.
So mostly going to 2 1/4" with a hotdogger resonator and a nice muffler should give me the clean flow through and the nice note I am after.

What do you think?

I also have a friend of mine that imports Jap cars, now he isn't the most reliable bloke in the world and his eyes are firmly planted on the almighty dollar, but we were thinking......
(dangerous I know) might just get him to keep an eye open for a computer. Ya just never know right?
This friend just always saying to me "yadayadayada go the Turbo mate yadayadayada" and I keep saying "if I wanted the turbo, I would get one MATE"
*sigh*

Anyway, time to go and do some work.......
work?
what's that?
*grins*

Cheers![/colorost_uid0]

[BigBoyLemonade]

[color=#006666ost_uid0]Maybe look at getting a Rising Rate Fuel pressure regulator.

Also before you start maybe get a dyno first so you know how much power you started with.. Once you have finish you can dyno it and see how much power you have gained...

I take mine to Autotech in Fyshwick and usually are pretty good[/colorost_uid0]

[Aaron]

[color=#000000ost_uid7]Thanks for clearing that up Sirex

I think Kitty has done the right thing by looking at boosting the performance in two or three aspects. The larger rear anti-roll bar will control roll so the Astinas tendancy to drop the nose into a corner and then cock the leg under braking should be lessoned, but it will make the rear end more skittish in the wet, and dry under hard brake&turn operations.. Ofcourse it can't fix the problem with physics but it can lessen the effect.

The great thing with playing with anti-roll bars is they're cheap for the gain, and don't appreciably worsen NVH of the car. The roll stiffness of the Astinas seems pretty good, but it's definately got a lot of room for improvement. In comparision to my Clio Sport the stock Astina has about the same roll stiffness but the Clio has a suspension setup that can better deal with the roll and translates it into grip pretty well. The Clio does run a higher (read bone jarring in comparison to Astina) spring rate to get it's roll stiffness.

Ofcourse there's not going to be the dramatic improvement until the car is fully aligned, possibly with the addition of a Camber kit kit let the thing be 'dialled' into a more agreesive turn-in and better tyre contact through the 'roll' action.

I know with the Clio there's many people in the UK bolting in $500>$700 intake kits that are drawing hot air into the motor compared to the stock airbox, but the improved piework gets them back some power they loose there. Witht he Astina I'm thinking of basically running a duct down into the area low inside the front wheelarch (between the guard and the wheelarch lining if there's space) and linking that into the factory airbox. Depends on what metal is int he way. Failing that there's always going down behind the front bumper. A bit of a lip to pick up some pressurised air from the vehicle movement and voila. If intake temps can't be dropped I'd be surprised.

Do the BAs have a diagnositics port that talks EOBD or OBD-II? I've got the logging gear and have found in the past that it gave very useful data for wokring on induction setups

Exhaust is going to be tough... Should be no more than maybe $350, going from the cat back in say 2.25inch (enough for 200hp easy) . Mufflers and resonators are pretty cheap for basic Walker/Lukey flow through units in mild steel, the pipe itself is pretty cheap. In fact the biggest cost will prbably be the labour component. A good exhaust shop _should_ be able to convert your words into a system that meets your desires.

Accept that it may be a little louder and a littler more growly from outside the car, but at the same time make sure it keeps you happy inside the car. You may end up having to make a trip or two back and forth to get it 'just right' but normally a good shop will make small changes for next to nothing ... or just for the ocst of an extra resonator.

Whatever you do don't get pushed into going for some big ricey exhaust tip unless you want one.. tips can totally affect the noise output. Rolled edge tips tend to cause drone and resonance, while bigger tips than pipe (4 inch tip on 2.25 pipe)will make a tinny echo type noise as the engine revs under load. A straight pipe outlet will burble at low revs/load and tend to open to harsher noise as you load up the revs.

My preference is for the latter - they're also good for stealth.[/colorost_uid7]

[Rupewrecht]

[color=#000000ost_uid0]i think a few worthwhile mods would be:

Power:
*Catback exhaust, as the standard system is 2" pre muffler anyway(so i've been told)
*Cold Air induction + Panel filter - pods arent that much better if at all
*Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator - only a maybe, but makes a difference on an NA car -mine did

Handling:
*Rear Sway Bar - one of the best mods i did
*Front Tower Brace/Strut Brace
*Adjustable Camber Bolts - for the front, only a maybe, but if you have a tower brace you need them

i know you didn't want to go bigger wheels, but the handling benefits of a set of 16x7's would make a huge difference to the handling and grip of the car

cheers
Dan[/colorost_uid0]