GTX Plans and Opinions...

[zappy65]

So fuel cut defender + Standard BPT ECU, ok then, how do you go about installing one of these things? how do you tune them, obviously you would need bigger injectors + bigger fuel pump + FPR?

[chicaboo]

Zappy, I'm using a Jaycar DFA and 18psi chipped stock ECU cause it's a cheap way out. I can then spend the money I've saved on suspension and other things that needed doing. It will also make it more exciting when I get my Microtech flashed to suit with a BPT dizzy, so that I can get even more power with the removal of the VAF down the track. But for now I have lots of little things that need doing and I don't need to overcomplicate things with the addition of the Microtech at this stage...

Gav.

[newman]

the Jaycar Fuel cut defender is practically the same as the jaycar EBC... You even use the same hand controller

[ROB-80E]

Originally Posted by zappy65

So fuel cut defender + Standard BPT ECU, ok then,

NO!!! A Jaycar Digital Fuel Adjuster is in no way a Fuel Cut Defender. The DFA is basically a programable ECU to control your injectors/fuel input into the engine. It has to be dyno tuned. The difference between it and a MT/EMS etc etc is that you cannot adjust timing or anything else. As i said before, timing is where you make alot of power gains.

A fuel cut defender is just a ticket to blowing up your motor, because all you would efectivly be doing is running say 18psi on the amount of fuel programmed for 15psi.

[zappy65]

Ok, so for a couple of weeks i have been waying up my various options and after a very unexpected and unfortunately short drive in my mates VW GTi Polo i have realised i dont need 190kw to have fun, especially in a light FWD so....what i have compiled is a cheap, reliable, yes the two words in the one sentence, and overall fun and exciting, Im now aiming fora ball blistering 150-160kw atw...quickly....say 4200rpm quick....hahaha, Ive now decided to go balance over power and since realised that i should spend more money on suspension then on power....especially for what i really want....ill keep the drags for Ross and Rob so.....
Simply put:
GTX 1/2 Cut
Check, Clean or rebuild head if required
GTX piston crowns
B6T shotpeened rods
GTX crank
MS oil pump
New water pump and thermostat etc.
All new bearings and rings
VF10/VJ20 Hybrid
new gaskets, seals, fluids, belts etc...
2.5' dump to 3' exhaust
FMIC
FPR
jspec ecu
12psi....
will make a quick 150kw

[zappy65]

Firstly...Will this make 150kw easy, after what i have red, it will easily...
Secondly...will the VF10/VJ20 Hybrid hit boost at 2300rpm on a 1.8 DOHC? if not , when will it hit? when do you reckon it will drop off?
Thirdly...FMIC's, i need design idea's, ive seen one sided inlet/ outlet IC's these seem to be good for short piping lengths but are harder to fit because of space, pictures of your current IC setups would be nice, has anyone ever tried putting the IC upside down? thanks
Forthly, dont go askin me about EM, i cant afford it and atm dont need it, i will however do it later down the track...maybe 2 years...

[newman]

vf10. probably closer to 3000rpm, it should keep pulling decently till red line.
upside down intercooler? there is an upside down? :P

[project.r.racing]

VF10 more like 3500rpm, but being a hybrid which i have no experience with, so situation might be different?..

you realize you can get 145kW from just a VJ20 turbo right?
and you'll need more than 12psi to gain 150kW from a VF20.

ryan

[zappy65]

Newman, redline you reckon, ive heard mixed opinions about the drop off, somme say they drop on a dyno at around 6300rpm, some say they dont drop off at all...As for the IC upside down, of course you can, simply turn the IC upside down, this limtis the amount of bends and sharp turns that are needed to pipe up the IC on a BG the original way ( from turbo the right hand side through IC and around up to the left and to the TB..) Ive seen people do it on Silvia's with awesome results, cuts out like 2 bends, its also a good idea if your not sure about clearance from ground to pipe work, Ive seen some ridiculous clearances around here...
Ryan, Yeah i know the VJ20 can push 140kw at a higher psi rating, but ive heard they drop off alot more then the VF10 Hyrbid option, they also dint pull as hard in the mid range...so ive been told...

[ROB-80E]

Okie dokie, for the guys that have answered the question about when the VF10 hybrid will mumbo, sorry you are both wrong. With a dump pipe it ill easily be wheel spinning at 2500-2800rpm. I know...I have had one fitted to my car, both with standard and aftermarket ECUs.

The power curve of a VF10/vj20 hybrid will start to fall away at about 6000rpm or just before. Again i have the dyno runs on paper that will show that. This is mainly because the boost pressure actually starts to fall...and at high RPM, the VF10 cannot keep up. Yes what you said about the Vj20 is true, it is worse than the VF10 hybrid. This doesn't mean that you can't rev past it...it just means your engine isn't making power any more, and really, you're better off changing gear and keeping the power curve in the upward motion.

IMO you're better off sticking with the traditional FMIC piping rout (RH 90 degree bend off the turbo, 180 degree LH bend into the cooler at the front, out of the ic and make your way to the throttle body). As long as the bends are mandral, it won't effect the performance. The astina has plenty of room for pipes under there...hey, i got 3" pipe tucked under mine...you'll have no drama's with 2.5".

As for making 140-150kw...i'm skeptical...you're hold back is the factory ECU. All i can say there, is if you dyno it with that setup, don't be disappointed if you see 135kw come up on the screen.

[project.r.racing]

My turbo engine before it had it's meltdown in the laser was running 146kW atw with 14psi, and had 135kW atw with 11psi.

standard BPT/VJ20
3" turbo back exhaust
2.25/2.5" front plumbing + FMIC
Wolf V400 ECU
Boost controller
Pod filter

(pic below of GTR set up, but GTX set up was the same...


What's a hybrid cost??? vs a $1500 ECU???

Before = GTX/VJ20, After = GTR


Ryan

[zappy65]

I like tyhat box for the CAI....and that plumb back idea is smooth....how responsive was that tune?...when did iit kick in , peak power and die down? The VJ20 wouldnt have helped much........

[project.r.racing]

Originally Posted by zappy65

how responsive was that tune?...when did iit kick in , peak power and die down? The VJ20 wouldnt have helped much........

look at dyno chart... have a look at the curves... that's why i put it up...

but basicly, the GTR set up was worse under 3000rpm but lots better over it. and have another 2psi of useable boost and kept going another 1000rpm. And had massive amount of extra torque... but the GTR set up has destroyed 2 diffs so far. (but me thinkz thats the user doing too many skids.)

As for the standard GTX set up => it's a steady power curve, failing at 5000rpm...

[newman]

lol, i'd say around 3700 - 4000rpm

[project.r.racing]

The point i'm trying to make is:- Do you wanna gain 20kW from a ECU or from a hybrid turbo???

I vote for ECU upgrade... Cos the above setup got 195hp/146kw at the wheels using VJ20 turbo.

I really wouldn't mind knowing what a high-flowed VJ20 and bigger injectors would do? ($1000 worth of upgrade.)

[ROB-80E]

VF10/VJ20 hybrid = $400-$500 running Thats going from a running standard setup. Less when setting it up right from the beggining of a conversion.

If i were in zappy's situation, i know what way i'd go. Hi-flowing a VJ20 IMO is pointless. I'd like to know where you get it done for less than $1000 too...as I said, pointless when you can get the same out of a VF10 for less than half the cost.

P.S.
you got jipped on your GTR tune. :S On my setup i went from 163kw with a VF10/VJ20 hybrid to bolting on a GTR turbo and manifold and making 204kw (over 50HP gain)...to eventually 214kw with some more fiddling and new coil. I think you may have a slight misconception of 2psi more usuable boost over the VJ20.

[project.r.racing]

Originally Posted by ROB-80E

VF10/VJ20 hybrid = $400-$500 running Thats going from a running standard setup. Less when setting it up right from the beggining of a conversion. If i were in zappy's situation, i know what way i'd go. Hi-flowing a VJ20 IMO is pointless. I'd like to know where you get it done for less than $1000 too...as I said, pointless when you can get the same out of a VF10 for less than half the cost.

Well for $500, it's a steal. I'm won over. Definently a good choice if on a budget...

[Tarmac Ninja]

Well, since im looking at buying a house a bit down the track i am now on a budget, im also impatient and am finding it hard to even hold off just throwing it in...lol...anyway, a VF10/VJ20 hybrid would be a far better option for responsiveness and overall power..even without the Engine Management side of things being stock at 12psi, it should pull quite nicely, the problem is, i have opinion but who knows fact? are there any places in and around Logan that know about BP's or are they just unknown....since the engine will be rebuilt i dont see the point in keeping the standard VJ when i can put in a more flowing turbo for a really good price, once again over the VF12 option i can do the VF10 option myself saving even more money, maybe in a years time i will look into a ECU and when that time comes i know the engine will go for at least another 150k...this is John by the way, not rally dude..hahahhaa + by the looks on that dyno graph, the VJ20 starts to die off pretty early compared to the VF setup, it does however start up nicely...

[project.r.racing]

Look I'm won on the hybrid idea. After seeing and values/costs of each method of gaining power, it seems like a good option.

One last question and I then can bugger off - Do you need B6T rods? Doesn't seem nessacary for the power output you a aiming for.

Ryan

[dave0r]

there is a guy in my City making 11 psi 154wkw from VF10 hybrid
FWD GTX (using my old lantis box :P )
GTX engine
GTX ECU
Front mount
3" exhaust
external wastegate from stock gtx manifold

tuned as best as a stock0 ECU can get really


nothing wrong with that sorta powers