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View Full Version : Holden's supercharged V6 is rubbish!!


mike_d87
20-07-2005, 05:43 PM
we had a vx 's' commodore traded in at work this week. we had to take it to the holden dealer up the road to get the radio coded in.

neway i was driving it and thought id see how it went. the other apprentice was driving the work van, a 1 Litre Suzuki Wagon import it makes about 40-60 kW atf.

the commodore could not keep up! no wheelspin, power was switched on. it was in drive but it has more than 100 kW more!! he had a bit of a head start coz we had to do a u-turn but it was only about 20m i revved it to about 5000 revs. was i doing something wrong or are holdens just rubbish??

mazdamanik
20-07-2005, 06:19 PM
dude honestly do u really think that the van could win? the superchraged S is not exactly slow compared to it...maybe there was somthing wrong with the actualy charger and it wasnt working....but no way in hell that could happen...was traction control on? cause that can sometimes drain power depending on how u drive it

chicaboo
20-07-2005, 06:39 PM
Commodores always feel faster when your're in them, no faster than most mildly warmed over Astinas in reality. I've driven a Supercharged Calais before, and I think the supercharger doesn't so much add to the engine, but rather makes what you expect it should be in the first place. It takes it from 147-165kW at the fly, which is rather pathetic gain at 4.5psi or whatever they run, that's about half the efficiency you expect from most boost applications...
Having said that, you're still looking at a car capeable of doing a low 16 1/4 and a high 8s 100, so I'm thinking it's been babied too much or running on limp-home mode to not be able to outdo the might of the suzuki 1L.

mike_d87
20-07-2005, 06:43 PM
yes it does sound like bull****, and the traction control was on, the truth is it was not gaining ne ground. there could be something wrong with the charger (even though there is still a holden v6 underneath it) or the driver. i prefer to believe that its just wat holden does :p

Nate
20-07-2005, 06:45 PM
yeah it should have been way faster than that ... Holden only ever released the blown commy in an auto ... reason being? the VT series one ss came with a 5 litre 195kw engine, you could exactly have an aussie 8 being out run by the blown six cause thats just not cricket. if i was to do a commy up it would be the blown six with a manual conversion, apparently they will do the same times as a 5 Litre SS ... but at the end of the day it should have gone quicker and its still just a commonwhore ;)

CRA23
20-07-2005, 06:55 PM
my gfs parents have a S supercharge and it keeps us with r33 gtst's, they did have huge proplems with the supercharger so that may be the problem. and yes nate i have been told by commo feaks that a manual supercharged commo will beat a SS anyday, and u can get a lot more power very easy, they tuned it down cos the v8 had to be the best, this is the same as the new turbo xr6 :)

Q2CDIS
20-07-2005, 08:14 PM
i say the problem is the driver hahah.. nah it could b the charger cos i had a probly wit mine wen i use to drive a VT v6 supercharged manual.. i got a bigger charger in it runnin 11psi n nuffin could keep up wit that thing

mazdamanik
20-07-2005, 08:21 PM
i mean even a stock v6 commonwhore will outrun most smaller cars....i did say most=P and especially a little zuk 1L.....u do know the "Go Fast" pedal is on the right dont u

mike_d87
20-07-2005, 10:36 PM
holdens dont seem to have a 'go fast' pedal

tidy protege
20-07-2005, 10:49 PM
well my mates mum owns an s supercharged and i can tell you 1st hand that the s supercharge doesnt go to badly stock those things run a 7.3 dash to 100 and run a mid 15 1/4 mile i cant see the van your refering to keeping up with that.

The could go better, but once you get those things rolling they go hard with the torque they have they could match some pretty fast cars once you get them rolling, the big weakness in the s supercharged is the gearbox and holden only made them available in auto because when they were released it wouldnt look very good if there v6 supercharged s pac would out run there slow 179kw 5.0liter ss's which were only good for a 7 flat and low 15 to high 14.

Nate
21-07-2005, 10:44 AM
what mods have you done to the van?

tidy protege
21-07-2005, 11:21 AM
what mods have you done to the van?

Im guessing not a great deal:


the other apprentice was driving the work van, a 1 Litre Suzuki Wagon import it makes about 40-60 kW atf.

robprice
21-07-2005, 11:49 AM
yeah my best mate drives a vx series 2 hsv xu6, and it flies. Not always the quickest through bends, but it does go bloody well.

chicaboo
21-07-2005, 01:01 PM
I forgot to mention that the in gear rolling accelleration on the supercharged 6 is very nice without having to drop a gear or 2 like our little cars. That in itself makes it feel pretty good. And somehow the supercharged engine is perversely smoother than the regular ecotech V6!
Don't forget that mid 15 1/4 that Craig mentioned requires doing a nuetral drop on the auto box! No way they do a mid 15 without being so brutal to them... If the regular V6 I raced at the drags is truely representative of the NA V6s, then the regular V6 can only do a real world 16.7-16.9...

BigBoyLemonade
21-07-2005, 07:18 PM
An R33 GTSt is a slow piece of ****, my Eunos anilates them and its slow atm cause of the 19" rims. I would choose a holden over a nissan anyday!

The Holden V6 isn't that fast but its a low 15 sec 1/4 mile car which is quicker than most cars. With a induction and exhaust it becomes quite a weapon!

chicaboo
21-07-2005, 07:32 PM
Are you talking about a manual V6 Tony? Because the autos us little Astinas race on the Motorraceway1 private road are nowhere near that speed, here are the best times for the V6 atuo I raced at Willowbank:
60ft - 2.535
660ft - 10.850@65.67mph
ET - 16.790@82.67mph

BigBoyLemonade
22-07-2005, 08:12 AM
Ah sorry chica, I meant the supercharged version

andrewgrazier
22-07-2005, 09:39 AM
sounds abit weird
we have a v6 VT commodore sedan and it gets wheel spin taking off . quite bad around roundabouts thoguh.

Mazda_Brian
22-07-2005, 09:40 AM
An R33 GTSt is a slow piece of ****, my Eunos anilates them and its slow atm cause of the 19" rims. I would choose a holden over a nissan anyday!

No offense here Xedos, but my current car (Nissan 180sx CA18DET) struggles to hold a Nissan R33 GTST 2.5 litre.

My car was also used against a VT Supercharged commodore in Pyrmont a few months back (while it was having serious injector problems), and I wasn't pulling away fast, but I was making about 10cm every second or so, so I was creaping away from the Commodore. I later found that the commdore was a supercharged version.

Both cars being stock. If your Eunos can anialate the Skyline R33, then no doubt it could anialiate mine as well, but the previous 3 Eunos Miller's I have taken on where absolutely no chance, and that was before I tuned up, so unless you are running some serious mods, I suspect it would be similar.

BTW, I travel to Canberra frequently, so we will have to meet up one day, and compare cars :)

Cheers, B.

P.S. I would pick a Nissan over a Holden anyday, Nissan put more into their cars, and dont carry the Bogan slogan with their name.

BigBoyLemonade
22-07-2005, 01:40 PM
I have a rebuilt supercharger, polish and ported heads so it depends if you call that serious mods... in the way of cost it was serious to my wallet for the gains I got out of it. (5-10kw)

And the GTSt's you are racing must have some half decent mods cause I could toy with GTSt in my astina, pretend to keep up with them, wave out the window and accelerate away from them quite easily. They are just heavy pigs with loud turbos for inexperienced drivers to wrap round trees.

A stock CA18DET in good condition should do a mid 15sec 1/4 mile which is what a GTSt do. Also remember there are differences between the series 1 and 2 but still they aren't fast unless you mod them, even then why would you bother, buy a GTR, then if you really wanna go fast just buy a rotor...

tidy protege
22-07-2005, 03:57 PM
why would you bother, buy a GTR, then if you really wanna go fast just buy a rotor...

hahaha my thoughts exactly

chicaboo
22-07-2005, 07:16 PM
I went and looked at some import Skylines the other day. The R33 is very boring inside, but atleast it has a double-din. The R34 was rather nice inside, and a bit larger too, so I fitted in there quite happily, and they don't come much bigger than me! The R34 auto had a more complete looking interior and was more aesthetically pleasing compared to the manual in this way. But the shift on the manual was silky smooth like nothing I've ever experiences, it was effortless if a tad sloppy.
But seriously I can't imagine a 2.5L I6T being "slow"? It probably has the gentlemens limit of 206kW to begin with, and it's still smaller and lighter than a Soarer or Supra...

Cosmo Dude
22-07-2005, 08:22 PM
At the end of the day if the S/C Holden or Turbo Ford had more power than the legendary V8 then the average Aussie meat-head would be so confused that they would fall into a coma. The NA versions of these engines are seriously de-tuned (and found in taxis).
The Suzuki van would weigh almost nothing and accelerate like a bullet up to 60km/h where, in third gear, it would run out of puff. The holden would still be in first.

mazdamanik
22-07-2005, 08:53 PM
the van still would not outrun the commo though...i mean seriously guys its just not possible....its liek saying a stock suzuki cino will outrun a supra

Mazda_Brian
22-07-2005, 09:05 PM
I have a rebuilt supercharger, polish and ported heads so it depends if you call that serious mods... in the way of cost it was serious to my wallet for the gains I got out of it. (5-10kw)

.....

A stock CA18DET in good condition should do a mid 15sec 1/4 mile which is what a GTSt do. Also remember there are differences between the series 1 and 2 but still they aren't fast unless you mod them, even then why would you bother, buy a GTR, then if you really wanna go fast just buy a rotor...

Any Forced induction re-build will be a major bank account modification, but well worth it if you think about it...

No point modifying your car for powergain unless you have a decent platform, so re-build are good to get that platform to play off.

Anyway, at the time I toasted the Eunos Miller's, I had servere leaking injectors (200kms to a tank driving steady, and chewing close on 22.5 - 26litres/100kms).

Now that the injectors are re-built and running nicely, I get 12 - 15litres/100kms, and 300 - 380km/tank, far improved.

As for the Commodores, they are heavy tanks, and yes, my car can run low 15's on the quauter (yet to test it on a strip), but slight mods will see it run high 14's without huge issues.

I dont mind the car, but your dead right, if your after power, go GTR or Rotary, only problem with Rotary power is the lack of torque, and the fuel consumption, but if your after huge power numbers, then huge fuel numbers are a just a symptom.

B.

mazdamanik
22-07-2005, 09:10 PM
GTR and Rotary arnt the only thing that can go fast though i mean a twin turbo V8 will haul arse and a toyota supra can very easily eat a GTR if dun right....in reality if u got the money u can make any car beat any other car u want

Cosmo Dude
23-07-2005, 09:04 AM
the van still would not outrun the commo though...i mean seriously guys its just not possible....its liek saying a stock suzuki cino will outrun a supra
The Suzuki van would be quicker of the line due to it weighing half the commo and gearing to carry loads. The van wouldn't 'outrun' the commo, it can't go as fast.

mcwilly
23-07-2005, 10:11 AM
lol i hate commodores but still there is no way its gonna loose to some **** van thing. my mates falcon auto has inline 6 wid 156kw and i hold pretty well wid him and he beats most commodores (not sure bout a s/c neva run one) and i can beat a van if not id cry and sell the car

chicaboo
23-07-2005, 10:34 AM
The supercharged commodore feels better than a stock commodore, but it's not outrageous power, and they only come in an auto. To me they feely more torquey and tractable than surgingly willing... It still felt a bit dull down low to me though.
I'd still argue the point to Tony that the s/c'd VX Calais I drove would not do a low-mid 15 if it's life depended on it. By the feel of it, closer to a high 15 or low 16 at best. But mind you I didn't cain the living **** out of it with the traction turned off with a big auto stall or anything...

goldsp
23-07-2005, 11:50 AM
mm the commo would win hands down and even if you where the worst driver in the world it would not matter yopu would kill the van.

as for little astina's matching s/c commo's i think not and some people have to get there hand off it.

chicaboo
23-07-2005, 05:27 PM
as for little astina's matching s/c commo's i think not and some people have to get there hand off it.Andrew's probably got the only "Astina" that could outdrag a s/c'd commodore down the 1/4. But many a little Astina can outdo a regular commodore...
I'm assuming the SU6 was available in 5 or 6 speed manual? If so, they'd be pretty quick I take it, and probably closer to the times Tony mentioned.

mike_d87
26-07-2005, 09:17 PM
had another go today without traction control and can say it certainly didnt take long to get rid of that suzi!

BigBoyLemonade
27-07-2005, 07:05 AM
ah yes, traction can be a bitch... I turn mine off soon as I start the car. Its good in the rain in a straight line though, I have beaten an old M3 cause he just wheel spun... oh the joy

mazdamanik
27-07-2005, 04:53 PM
traction control.....wats that?

goldsp
27-07-2005, 08:47 PM
i still would not put money on twiggys car against a s/c commo .

tidy protege
27-07-2005, 09:09 PM
times talk bro, theres no way in hell a stock s supercharged is going to run a 15.3 or faster which is what andres consistantly does.

robprice
27-07-2005, 09:42 PM
i still would not put money on twiggys car against a s/c commo .
nor xedoz against an m3

goldsp
27-07-2005, 09:51 PM
nor xedoz against an m3


exactly , have you ever thought the m3 would have traction control too . probably more fancy a traction unit too

chicaboo
27-07-2005, 10:45 PM
i still would not put money on twiggys car against a s/c commo .Supercharged S Commodore feels good from the seat but is a slug dude (auto only), if it did better than a 15.7-15.9 I'd be surprised. Maybe the SU6 can do better if it's manual, but noone CBF answering my question as to whether it is or not, I would assume it's manual and could run a low 15 like Tony said?

robprice
28-07-2005, 06:04 AM
SV6 was auto only

chicaboo
28-07-2005, 09:40 AM
SV (current VZ I think?) or SU (older VX/VY)?

robprice
28-07-2005, 02:35 PM
vz comes in a 6 speed too, sorry

Lunchbox#bg
28-07-2005, 06:16 PM
LOL Dude Dads WH Statesmans got a supercharged 6 in it i hate the electronic shifted trannys but other than that pick the right time to plant it and it flys theyre actually quite powerfull engines

chicaboo
28-07-2005, 07:12 PM
A V6 auto commodore can spin the wheels quite easily up to 30-40kph too, but it doesn't stop us little Astinas with hohum mods owning them on the 1/4 and all the way to 200kph...

fruitbat38
01-08-2005, 11:45 AM
A V6 auto commodore can spin one wheel quite easily up to 30-40kph too, but it doesn't stop us little Astinas with hohum mods owning them on the 1/4 and all the way to 200kph...

I fixed this for you ;)

goldsp
01-08-2005, 02:11 PM
money is still on a s/c commo

Mazda_Brian
01-08-2005, 02:19 PM
money is still on a s/c commo

The V6 Commodore isn't designed as "performance", even the supercharged versions are not what anyone could call "performance".

The commodore is designed as the Aussie family sedan, the supercharged version provides slightly more power, for things such as towing, etc, but also allows those poor blokes that ended up starting a family to have fun with their "powerful" car.

There are plenty of cars on the Australian market that would rip the commodore to shreds, both naturally aspirated, and forced induction, and they are by no means hard to get ahold of.

B.

goldsp
01-08-2005, 03:16 PM
yeh i know and if you want to talk about cars purposes. 323's are by no means a performance car , with less then 100kw atf . so i would rate a s/c commo over a mildly worked astina

chicaboo
01-08-2005, 03:50 PM
The commonwhore is only rated purely by virtue that it's engine is more than twice the size of ours with boost. As far as handling dynamics it is very primitive in comparison.
I don't know why you bag your own car's potenital, many of us are working on making them performance cars, and it's an achievable goal. The Mazdaspeed Protegé is the 8th best handling production car in the world they say. That's some pedigree our cars stem from. And that's more of a statement than a Lancer coupé, which is vastly watered down from the EVO's and rally cars by comparison...