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-   -   '95 BA auto to manual conversion (http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20552)

Nix323 29-04-2013 09:01 PM

'95 BA auto to manual conversion
 
Gday,

This is my first post on these forums, so I will introduce myself:

My name is Nikki, I am 23 and have a 95 ba 323.
It was my first car & I have had it for 4 years.
I love it to bits!

It has done 270,000k's (100,000 in my possession)

Recently the auto failed (I have been told its the 3-4 cultch by an auto repair specialist)
So I have decided to drop a 5spd in it.

I bought an entire 97 model (for $600) as my donor car. 220,000k's
Clutch was "replaced" a year ago so I was told. It feels good.
(hail damaged & engine blows smoke until hot)
Both cars have Bp engines

(spewing, the donor car has a working sunroof!)

So what I need to know is, before I start pulling off parts is, can someone give me a specific list of what will need to be swapped?

Maybe even if I am lucky, you can tell me what order it's best to do it in!!

My mechanics and others I have asked have said "probably need this, probably need that"
That isn't helpful! So I just need to know, definately what parts need to be swapped.

I.e pedal box, clutch cable, ecu? (I have been told I shouldn't need to swap the ecu)

I need this to be as quick / pain free, as a conversion can get.
(I am driving a Hz 1 tonne of which has just shat it's dizzy >:( so I need my Mazda going again!)

I miss it!

Noble323 29-04-2013 09:40 PM

Hi Nikki,

Welcome to AstinaGT !

Im sure their will be a few that will message you soon regarding whats needed (I havnt done a conversion with this engine so no point in me guessing what you need haha)

If you feel confident and have the guts, do what Dan did with his car and a sunroof :)

here:
http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showt...t=13777&page=4

I probably would never attempt it haha.

Alemenara 29-04-2013 09:55 PM

Hi nikki,

The main problem is that you have a 95 (series I/II) BA and you're swapping in bits from a 97 (Series III). I may be wrong here but if you wanted a pain free swap the easiest way to do it would be to remove the motor and gearbox as 1 piece and drop it into your 95, the front harness and wiring loom changed in series 3, as did the injectors, cams and lifters, you could however try and trick the auto ecu into thinking its an auto, but since you have the whole car why not swap the whole lot?

You will need the crossmembers from your donor car, the master cylinder, pedal box, ecu (if you take this you need the engine and loom), gearbox & driveshafts, engine mounts, the gear knob asembly, the centre console and the cluster.

I'd recommend replacing the clutch whilst you have it all out and apart with an exedy or npc Heavy Duty clutch since it will be an easy job whilst its all apart (that way you know its not going to go on you ever again). Give the motor a full service whilst its out of the car (Timing belt, water pump, oils, oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs etc.).

Theres also a high possibility that you may need to drill into the firewall to make the necessary hole for the clutch pedal (however i may be wrong, i'd ask clean cookie as his project hatch used to be an auto).

If you don't want the engine out of the donor car then i'd suggest searching for a manual Series 1/2 ECU.

Nix323 30-04-2013 06:41 AM

That was very thorough!
Thank you!

How did I know that even though everyone told me it would be identical, it wouldn't!

I would definately prefer NOT to use the donor engine, given the smoke it blows, that and I know my current engine's service history.

Oh i didnt mention they're 4 cyl, not 6.
So I'll chase down a manual ecu.

So using the 95 engine & the 97 box, what parts do I need to chase down to make it fit that I wont already have?

I haven't got much money so if the clutch looks okay, I'll leave it till it goes to change it, it felt quite good when I drove it (dropped a skiddy in 2nd on my driveway unintentionally!)
By the same token, not much money means I would rather trick the auto ecu, what does this require?

What bits will I NEED to buy?
And what do I change when keeping the same engine but changing the box?

(I was under the impression I would need to swap the pedal box as it doesn't look like there is much space for the clutch...)

Nix323 30-04-2013 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble323 (Post 324078)
Hi Nikki,

Welcome to AstinaGT !

Im sure their will be a few that will message you soon regarding whats needed (I havnt done a conversion with this engine so no point in me guessing what you need haha)

If you feel confident and have the guts, do what Dan did with his car and a sunroof :)

here:
http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showt...t=13777&page=4

I probably would never attempt it haha.


Thanks!!
Much like you I don't think I will swap it, I'm not too keen in cutting holes in my car!!!

project.r.racing 30-04-2013 06:50 AM

if you have a donor car you have everything you need except brake fluid.

you need everything attached to the gearbox and the pedal box to make it work.

from doing this on a kf/kh laser, the only thing i can think of is running a wire for the reverse switch. or attempting to find it in the unused auto box wire loom.

Nix323 30-04-2013 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by project.r.racing (Post 324090)
if you have a donor car you have everything you need except brake fluid.

you need everything attached to the gearbox and the pedal box to make it work.

from doing this on a kf/kh laser, the only thing i can think of is running a wire for the reverse switch. or attempting to find it in the unused auto box wire loom.



So you believe I would need to change the loom?
Brake fluid & reverse wire are very good points!

project.r.racing 30-04-2013 10:18 AM

i dont believe you need to change the loom. but then i'm not an expect on the wiring and the wiring is very different pre and post May 96.

Nix323 02-05-2013 06:42 AM

How can I trick my current ecu into thinking its still an auto when I put the manual in?

Sorry I really can't afford to buy extra parts.

I have a second car and it is also not on the road, iv so far poured nearly a grand into them combined :(

So if I trick the ecu, what parts will I need to just change the box?

Cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alemenara (Post 324081)
Hi nikki,

The main problem is that you have a 95 (series I/II) BA and you're swapping in bits from a 97 (Series III). I may be wrong here but if you wanted a pain free swap the easiest way to do it would be to remove the motor and gearbox as 1 piece and drop it into your 95, the front harness and wiring loom changed in series 3, as did the injectors, cams and lifters, you could however try and trick the auto ecu into thinking its an auto, but since you have the whole car why not swap the whole lot?

You will need the crossmembers from your donor car, the master cylinder, pedal box, ecu (if you take this you need the engine and loom), gearbox & driveshafts, engine mounts, the gear knob asembly, the centre console and the cluster.

I'd recommend replacing the clutch whilst you have it all out and apart with an exedy or npc Heavy Duty clutch since it will be an easy job whilst its all apart (that way you know its not going to go on you ever again). Give the motor a full service whilst its out of the car (Timing belt, water pump, oils, oil filter, fuel filter, spark plugs etc.).

Theres also a high possibility that you may need to drill into the firewall to make the necessary hole for the clutch pedal (however i may be wrong, i'd ask clean cookie as his project hatch used to be an auto).

If you don't want the engine out of the donor car then i'd suggest searching for a manual Series 1/2 ECU.


Mad Mat 02-05-2013 07:56 AM

Pm'd

Mad Mat 02-05-2013 09:20 AM

Sssoooo to do a full auto to manual conversion there is a lot that needs to be changed... ive done this before with a BG astina and its not to fun...

What u need to do first is remove BOTH motor from both cars. With their gearboxes attached. Once u have done this (it will take u a day or two to do that.) swap the manual box over to the good motor. Now because of the Ecu issue I would recommend that u put the intake manifold from the **** motor on the good motor as well (I will explain this later on)...

So now u have the good motor ready to go into Ur car with all the auto gear (shifter and what not) still in it... what u need to do is pull out Ur dash to get to the fire wall. There is a plate there that unbolts and allows u to add the manual clutch master cylinder to the fire wall. You’re going to have to put all of the manual shifter linkages, the manual brake booster, manual brake fluid divider (located just below the clutch master cylinder) clutch line, etc from the donor car into your car.
Once all this is done then grab Ur Ecu and engine loom from the donor car and plug it all into your car. Now there reason I said before to change the intake manifolds is because there is different manifolds between S1/2 and S3 engines. So now u have the right intake manifold you should be right...

OW and make sure (Ryan didn’t realize this ether) that u get the donor’s cars alternator as it has an internal voltage reg where on the S3 the Ecu controls the voltage reg... ;)

If I have missed anything please guys let me know :)

Clean_Cookie 02-05-2013 09:29 AM

I couldn't figure out how to remove the auto shifter without breaking something. That may be my idiocy, but if anyone knows how it will help you.

Nix323 02-05-2013 05:04 PM

Thank you,
So there will be a problem with putting the donor ECU & loom into my car as mentioned earlier because Of the engine update in the s3, is this not correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mat (Post 324194)
Sssoooo to do a full auto to manual conversion there is a lot that needs to be changed... ive done this before with a BG astina and its not to fun...

What u need to do first is remove BOTH motor from both cars. With their gearboxes attached. Once u have done this (it will take u a day or two to do that.) swap the manual box over to the good motor. Now because of the Ecu issue I would recommend that u put the intake manifold from the **** motor on the good motor as well (I will explain this later on)...

So now u have the good motor ready to go into Ur car with all the auto gear (shifter and what not) still in it... what u need to do is pull out Ur dash to get to the fire wall. There is a plate there that unbolts and allows u to add the manual clutch master cylinder to the fire wall. You’re going to have to put all of the manual shifter linkages, the manual brake booster, manual brake fluid divider (located just below the clutch master cylinder) clutch line, etc from the donor car into your car.
Once all this is done then grab Ur Ecu and engine loom from the donor car and plug it all into your car. Now there reason I said before to change the intake manifolds is because there is different manifolds between S1/2 and S3 engines. So now u have the right intake manifold you should be right...

OW and make sure (Ryan didn’t realize this ether) that u get the donor’s cars alternator as it has an internal voltage reg where on the S3 the Ecu controls the voltage reg... ;)

If I have missed anything please guys let me know :)


Alemenara 02-05-2013 05:48 PM

Well im not sure how well or if the car would run at all if you were to use a series 3 intake manifold and injectors but keep the S2 cams, would just be easier to track down a S1/2 Manual ECU and do the swap, you should be able to get one on ebay, at the wreckers or ask around in the for sale section (i wouldn't pay anymore than $50)

Also about tricking the ECU i'd talk to maztech as he's done it a few times before and knows all the details.

Mad Mat 02-05-2013 06:26 PM

Dude ur over thinking it.. She will run fine with the s3 ecu and s1/2 cams.. All that changed was from a hydrolic lifter setup to a solid shim setup.. There wasn a massive change to the cam profile.. People run with massive cams on a stock ecu all the time..

Ur just over thinking it :)

But id sugest u use the manual ecu loom and ecu.. The auto loom has way to many extra wires and the pins arent the same..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alemenara (Post 324253)
Well im not sure how well or if the car would run at all if you were to use a series 3 intake manifold and injectors but keep the S2 cams, would just be easier to track down a S1/2 Manual ECU and do the swap, you should be able to get one on ebay, at the wreckers or ask around in the for sale section (i wouldn't pay anymore than $50)

Also about tricking the ECU i'd talk to maztech as he's done it a few times before and knows all the details.


Clean_Cookie 02-05-2013 06:49 PM

ive run my bG motor on S3 ecu for 3 years and on an s1 for 6 months.

Nix323 02-05-2013 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Mat (Post 324258)
Dude ur over thinking it.. She will run fine with the s3 ecu and s1/2 cams.. All that changed was from a hydrolic lifter setup to a solid shim setup.. There wasn a massive change to the cam profile.. People run with massive cams on a stock ecu all the time..

Ur just over thinking it :)

But id sugest u use the manual ecu loom and ecu.. The auto loom has way to many extra wires and the pins arent the same..

Okay so I would be best off getting a s1/2 ecu & loom?

Clean_Cookie 02-05-2013 06:54 PM

keep whatever is in the car right now. use all accessories (power steering pump(leave on car), alternator, intake manifold, ac comp (leave on car), etc and jusst use the new motors bare block. that way all sensors will work properly.

Nix323 02-05-2013 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clean_Cookie (Post 324266)
keep whatever is in the car right now. use all accessories (power steering pump(leave on car), alternator, intake manifold, ac comp (leave on car), etc and jusst use the new motors bare block. that way all sensors will work properly.

Mmmm kind of hoping to knock this over as quickly as possible, since both of my cars are off the road

Clean_Cookie 02-05-2013 07:20 PM

itll take an hour to swap over outside the car. its probably only about 15 nuts and 10 bolts.


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