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-   -   HOW TO: 5 stud conversion for BA? (http://www.astinagt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9879)

Rupewrecht 27-06-2007 02:51 PM

HOW TO: 5 stud conversion for BA?
 
talk about it - what you'd need to go from 4 stud to 5 stud, what the benefits are, and what brake upgrades you could do.

Copied as requested.

Plutonus 06-08-2007 04:37 PM

Fine I'll move topics :p ... could you get it cheaper from a wrecker?

project.r.racing 06-08-2007 04:42 PM

there is a maroon auto V6 at a wreckers in Cooroy, QLD. dunno details. but you'd be looking at $600 plus for the parts you require.

for the listed aboce item from japan, i'd throw away the strut/springs + arm. just keep the hub + caliper/rotors. would reduce shipping alot.

ryan

Rupewrecht 06-08-2007 04:52 PM

Ah the fronts have dropped in price to 5350yen ea.

with the ****e exchange rate at the moment you'd be looking at around 700 landed i reckon. Trouble is you're paying for the size/weight of the shocks and front suspension arms as well...so you'd possibly be better off getting a set from a wrecker for around the same price.

Plutonus 06-08-2007 04:56 PM

Is there much benefit by going to 5 stud? I'm having a google and not finding much.

And the ones from V6 fit on, no huge modifications needed? Brakes still work fine even though I wont have the ABS control unit thingy.

project.r.racing 06-08-2007 05:08 PM

brakes are bigger - better heat control
pads are 33% bigger - better stoping power

Dogo 06-08-2007 05:20 PM

rotors are 7mm bigger from memory

Aaron 06-08-2007 05:30 PM

Rear brakes are teh same dimensionally....
Frotns are significantly larger in Pad size, and their Diameter does go up from 257mm to 274mm Not huge but enough.

Reasons you'd want to go tthe upgrade include:
5x114.3 stud pattern has a lot of wheel and offset choice.
You can get bigger brake rotors without having custom drilling done
Engineering Wheel size/offset/track/brake mods gets a little easier.
Front brake caliper mounts more flexible for brake changes

Why you wouldn't:
Cost, time, cost, time, minimal gains unless you really end up pushing boundries..

A.

Plutonus 06-08-2007 06:32 PM

Time? Not just get the parts and get some brakes/suspension place to fit?

Well I can't turbo my car or do anything like that, damn P-Plater laws, gotta mod somehow ;)

But on the other hand, I can probably get a set of mazdaspeed rims from Rupe for about the same as just the parts, which makes it seem very costly, as I also would need new rims and tyres (5 stud).

Thanks for the info Aaron.

Cosmo Dude 06-08-2007 06:50 PM

If it's only the bigger brakes then you don't need to go 5-stud.
The axle and wheel hub from your car will fit into the V6 knuckle.
Most brake rotors can be bought without the holes being drilled for the wheel studs so you can get undrilled V6 rotors and have them drilled for the 4X100 PCD.
The back brakes shouldn't need to be touched but as a point of interest they are the same as the NA Mx-5 (that's the pop-up light one).

I'm looking around for a replacement front caliper set for my V6 ATM. If I find something good it'll be posted.

Aaron 07-08-2007 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plutonus (Post 140187)
Time? Not just get the parts and get some brakes/suspension place to fit?

Thanks for the info Aaron.

Time is still a factor. I rocked up with a full set of v6 knuckles and hubs brakes etc (cut off at the suspension arms basically) and it was still 7 hours of pro labour time to clean up, swap and align - however that included repacking the CVs, changing the front bearings, bleeding the crud outa the calipers and all that. It did cost a lot ($700 all up) but i do count it as worthwhile given what it is letting me do.

Cosmo is right about the bigger rotors however the caliper mounts on the 4 cylinder do not cope with swapping calipers like the v6 knuckles do.

Cosmo, you want twin pot subaru calipers using your original caliper bracket. Should bolt right on.

At the rear a Mazda6 caliper will bolt into the Astina mount bracket, but the brackets won't interchange as Mazda changed the bolt spacing for the mount to knuckle. Not to mentiont he Mazda6 runs a different hat height. But those problems are easily overcome.

A.

Cosmo Dude 07-08-2007 06:27 PM

Interesting...
I'll talk more about models and such for the twin caliper on the weekend.

Cosmo Dude 07-08-2007 06:40 PM

Dan,
Could you please copy this thread to the Suspension area, it's getting interesting and a topic that's comming up more often.

DavoAust 07-08-2007 11:55 PM

aaron why did they do the front bearings? or was it just something you had done at the same time?

boostedbatman 08-08-2007 03:23 AM

It is common in the US to do a caliper swap to twin pot Subaru Legacy calipers, they will bolt straight on

Aaron 16-08-2007 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boostedbatman (Post 140324)
It is common in the US to do a caliper swap to twin pot Subaru Legacy calipers, they will bolt straight on

Just to clarify, the CALIPER bolts into the MOUNT that's already on your car - this ONLY applies to the 5 stud cars.

Should be the Liberty Turbo calipers IIRC - will check it up...

A.

Aaron 16-08-2007 03:29 PM

This is the Subaru Caliper in a Mazda mount..

http://www.teamunemployment.com/gavi...9-0970_IMG.JPG

Pic is taken from MX6.com where a guy worked all this out. He sourced the caliper froma 1996 2.5L Legacy GT AWD. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to work out what other Sube models used the same calipers.

A.

Cosmo Dude 16-08-2007 03:38 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Mine look a little different.
I'll be test fitting on Saturday. If everything is OK I'll have them installed and the system bled next week.

Cosmo Dude 19-08-2007 01:24 PM

Well I can say categoricaly that the RS Liberty calipers don't fit, much wider mounting points.

Rupewrecht 19-08-2007 07:46 PM

Cable ties fix all ;)

Cosmo Dude 19-08-2007 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rupewrecht (Post 141152)
Cable ties fix all ;)

Not on my car, well not on the brakes anyway.

Cosmo Dude 25-08-2007 12:20 PM

Well I guarentee 100% that the Subaru brakes don't fit the Astina. They may fit an Mx-6 or Probe but the Astina caliper uses a different mounting method.

boostedbatman 26-08-2007 07:32 AM

Are they the Legacy 2 piston Rod
Thats a shame :(

Cosmo Dude 26-08-2007 11:59 AM

There are apparently only two types of twin pot calipers on Subies and I've tried both. Next month I'll try and get some 626/Mx-6 brackets and see if they will mount to the Astina then I may be able add the Subaru calipers but of course I'll probably need to use the smaller 626/Mx-6 rotors.
The Astina caliper uses two pins that extend into the bracket while the Subaru has one pin mounted in the bracket and the caliper slides on that. The other end of the caliper moves on a barrel that is bolted to the bracket.

Cosmo Dude 20-09-2007 06:52 PM

Well I picked up the GE 626 brake calipers today and they came with almost new Lucas brake pads WOO HOO Winner.
I have to change the pins and bolts between the brackets but so far so good, everything appears to align. By the time I've built one caliper it will be the weekend so I can check the fit.

Aaron 21-09-2007 12:41 PM

So the theory goes - Use a GE 626/MX6 caliper bracket to mount a Subaru XXX Twin put caliper (using a combo of Sube and Mazda slides/bolts) and then bolt that to the Astina?

Have I got it right?

A.

RedLineResident 21-09-2007 12:59 PM

V6 Calipers don't have two pistons do they?

ROB-80E 21-09-2007 01:59 PM

No just one big one in a floating point caliper.

RedLineResident 21-09-2007 02:05 PM

So really the V6 brakes wouldn't be a great deal more powerful, just better due to larger brake pads.

I thought that was the case. Now V6's are about 70kg heavier (i think i read somewhere) therefore the advantage of the bigger pads is leveld out when you add the extra weight.

Cosmo Dude 21-09-2007 02:24 PM

Yes and no.
The V6 rotors are larger then GE 626 rotors and the GE is bigger, heavier and more powerful so the V6 brakes ar much better than the 4 cyl ones. My worry is that the 626/Subie combo may not fit over the larger rotors.
If they don't then I'll jump onto mx6.com and try to recover some cash.
With some luck I should be able to test fit them on the weekend and maybe have them fitted by the months end.

The 626 brakes are also the same as GE Mx-6 and some Ford Probes.

RedLineResident 21-09-2007 02:29 PM

So are the astina rotors bigger than the 626 / mx6 rotors.

thats what i gathered from that post. I could be way way off ofcorse.

Cosmo Dude 21-09-2007 02:33 PM

Yep, not by much about 16mm extra diamater on the Astina

RedLineResident 21-09-2007 02:36 PM

That makes no sense, the 626's are a bigger, heavier car and their V6 engines are hell torqueier and pick up speed well. It doesn't make a great deal of sense to put smaller brakes on them.

Dad's got a 96 626, hes gonna spew when I tell him that my tiny astina has bigger rotors than his.

Awesom, that made my day.

ROB-80E 21-09-2007 04:48 PM

The V6 brake upgrage on my BG astina combined with DBA4000 rotors and Lucas pads made a HELL of a difference... I'm still working on getting the ABS side of things working, but i'm getting there.

I'd like to know if there is a difference going from the V6 brakes for the V6 brakes with a subie caliper...but at this stage, I haven't seen the need to upgrade any further.

Cosmo Dude 21-09-2007 08:36 PM

Oops,
I have just found that the 626 in question is a GD not a GE :o Oh well back to the wreckers next week.
The only thing on the thread was that it is posted in the MX6.com 1st gen section. On the bright side the GD rotors are only 10mm smaller than the BA V6 rotors.
If I do need GD rotors they should be much cheaper than the BA V6 ones, Greg?

Cosmo Dude 21-09-2007 09:08 PM

Just found that Eunos 800 N/A rotors are the same diameter as BA V6 and 6mm thicker. The centerline of the rotor is possibly too far inboard.
The HD 929 is 274mm across and 24mm thick with a similar center.
The BA V6 is 274mm across and 22mm thick.

project.r.racing 21-09-2007 10:17 PM

question - how would BG8Z GTR front hubs/rotors/calipers fit a BG or BA Astina?
i'm assuming it is a straight swap, but others will know more.

ryan

ROB-80E 23-09-2007 08:20 PM

No they won't go...only upgradeable on the BG GTX. The 4wd hubs are designed to work with a 4wd steering rack (yes they are different). Even on the GTX you still need the struts to go with.

The GTR brakes are essentially the same as the BA V6.

project.r.racing 23-09-2007 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROB-80E (Post 144657)
No they won't go...only upgradeable on the BG GTX. The 4wd hubs are designed to work with a 4wd steering rack (yes they are different). Even on the GTX you still need the struts to go with.
The GTR brakes are essentially the same as the BA V6.

the reason i ask is that you can get D2 / G4 / K-Sport 330mm rotors and 8 pot calipers for $2300 off the shelf for a GTR, (or $2600 for 356mm,) much bigger than the little toys currently being played with.

bugger the GTR hubs cannot be used then.

ryan

project.r.racing 23-09-2007 09:49 PM

What about 626 brakes from same era? Or they just V6 brakes?


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