suggestions on a stereo upgrade for a 323 sp20

[corks67]

Hi,

im looking at upgrading the stock stereo in the 323 soon, so have been having a look around and whats good and whats not.

not looking to spend a fortune - been there done that , but hoping to guess a nice clear sound.

source unit i was looking at a powered deck with the ability to play mp3 off burnt cd's

i like alpine gear so i was looking at either the http://www.alpine.com.au/products/pr...sp?modelID=292 or the http://www.alpine.com.au/products/pr...sp?modelID=290
but open to other suggestions

speakers wise i was thinking of puting in 5 x7 2 ways inthe front doors
http://www.alpine.com.au/products/pr...sp?modelID=319 or maybe 5 x7 components or should i mod the doors to fit 6.5 in speakers in?

and maybe some 6.5 or 5.25 in(i think they fit) 2 ways in the back doors later

any suggestions or ideas most appreciated

thank you

dave

[milehigheric]

To help at all we need to know a few things....


-Budget?
-Sub?
-Amps?
-DIY or pro installed?

Fronts
Midbass is very important to most people...fact is 5 x 7's don't really cut it. A 6" or 6.5" driver is not that hard to install these days. There are pods on the market for alot of cars or if your keen make some yourself. For any sort of staging I would stay away from two way coax speakers. They always tend to pull the soundstage down, making it feel like the sound is comeing from 'down there' which doesn't sound very attractive in any car. A nice set of 2 way 6" or 6 and 1/2" splits should be very nice depending on install.

Rears
Rears are not important at all. Some like them there as 'rear fill' but in a practical sense they are just there to keep the freeloaders happy. I would stick with the stockies and run them off the H/U. If you go to a concert where is the sound coming from? The front....it makes little sense to have your rears overpowering your fronts.

Speaker Install
Almost as important as the actual speaker itself, install plays a vital role in the performance of your equipment. Assuming this is a DIY job, you need to make the decision whether you are going to do it properly or you just want music. The proper way involved deadening the door skin, closing the service holes and providing a solid mount for your drivers. It's your call, but I can guarantee a large difference if doors arent prepared properly

Sub
The sub, assuming you want one is there for one of two reasons. To beat the crap out of the occupants of the vehicle, or to blend subtly with the rest of the speakers. Depending how you want it to sound, will determine what we recommend. Most 'daily' setups find a compromise between !!LOUD!!! doof and sweet SQ......Again, a sub is a speaker and is subjective. Fortunatly the sub is restricted to a small sub bass frequency range (how weird?) so it makes it a little easier on our ears to compare. Remember a sub is nothing without it's box, it is like Kentucky and chicken......Sub box design can make or break a sub (litterly) and will make all the difference. In general a sealed enclosure is easier to build, more responsive and if built to the correct TS parameters can reach those low notes. Don't be fooled but, a well designed and built ported box can yield much louder increases in sound and still compete with it's sealed counterparts in responsiveness.

Amps
Depending on your budget you could amp your system various way. Considering this is a daily driver i would stick with 2 amp or possibly even a 1 amp setup if money is an issue. You need to make a decision as to wether you want to amp the sub/speakers seperately or together. Either way, you want to spend the extra dosh and get a good quality amp. Stay away from ebay etc! If something looks to cheap, IT IS!! A 4 x 100 amp (400ish mark) would happily run a sub and the fronts although may leave you with some desire at the higher volume levels. If your budget permits, i would run the sub independently of it's own class Dmono-block.

The most important thing to remember sound IS subjective. I could love a speaker to bits, but when you have a listen it could sound like crap to your ears. The point? You need to audition as many speakers as you can.....Don't go being impulsive at spending, take some time and find out what you like.

So at the end of that rant...i would be looking at something like this.

headunit- $500
Fronts- $400
sub- $300
2 channel amp- $300
monoblock- $500

That is probably a rough estimate of your average install breakup....minus the wiring and install cost obviously.

Give us some specifics and we can recommend some stuff to try in your price range....

-Eric

[Hebz]

What Eric said is right. Although I do enjoy my rears - and when I turn them off, the whole system seems to lack something (I hate the concert comparison )

Alpine make some mighty nice headunts - all you really have to worry about with them is that you select a headunit with enough pre-outs to power the speakers you choose. You also might want to consider some Eclipse Headunits - if your feeling like spending a bit more.

Example: You get fronts, rears and a sub. You will need 3 pre-outs. If you don't want rear speakers, you will only need 2 pre-outs.

But please don't get Alpine speakers Alpine make very nice Headunits and very nice amps, but speakers not so much. There are lots and lots of very very good brands which make car audio equiptment out there at some very good value for your money - Alpine, for what you pay is not one of them. You just don't get as much out of your dollar They make some very nice High end (very expensive) speakers though.

With speakers - get splits and get 6" or 6 & 1/2".

Eric has given so much good advise - there is really not that much left for me to comment on

Originally Posted by milehigheric

Sub
The sub, assuming you want one is there for one of two reasons. To beat the crap out of the occupants of the vehicle, or to blend subtly with the rest of the speakers.

Lol. Can I have both?

Heb

[milehigheric]

One important thing to remember is to buy for the future. Many people go out and buy substandard products that don't meet the users needs because they were 'cheap'. Then 2 weeks later when there not happy, go out and spend money on 'proper' components. If you have a 300Wrms sub, I would be looking at a 500Wrms mono etc....always leave room for an upgrade.

Alpine do make great decks, and they are very competitive price wise. The headunit is very much a personal opinion. You are looking for something that looks good, is easy to use (navigation etc) and has the features that you need.
I would look for a unit above the entry level range...something with at least
-3 RCA preouts
-iPod control
-Removable face
-Aux in
Have a look around at all your shops around the area and try and find one you like. Don't stick with just alpine but, many other labels are renound for good decks including that of eclipse and pioneer.

Without actually hearing the alpine speaker range I haven't heard tremendously great reviews about them. As with all speakers, Install is critical which is most likely the reason for the bad rep. I can vouch for alpine bass however....My mate runs an entry level type-s sub and i was very surprised to hear it. It doesn't go tremendously loud, but the bass is very clean, tight and as borat said...."very nice"

Remember audio gear is marked up quite substantially by retailers. I know it is 2007 and all but there is no shame in haggling. Retailers will often give you a substantial discount just for asking. I got about 600 bucks off on my first install, which is much better in my pocket than theirs....

-Eric

[323GUY]

hey man

i have a bj astina with

alpine 6.5 inch r type splits in the front doors running off an alpine amp
stock 6 inch in the rear doors running off the head deck
2 x s type 12 inch subs running off an alpine monoblock
7 inch dvd head unit

and its good for 138.1 db

all up it was $2500 (with my old head deck, alpine cd/mp3)

hope this helps

[marcs_sp20]

I've got a SP20, and this is what I have:

Pioneer DEH30MP mp3 cd player
JL Audio 5x7" 120w 2way speakers up front
Pioneer 6" 160w 2way speakers for rear
12"Kicker sub in ported box
4ch 600w Pioneer Amp
Sony 4g 4ch amp kit

I use to go spastic on stereo's ( I threw a $2500 stereo in my old gemini not worth even a 10th of that ), but nowadays im only after a nice crisp sound & not a lot of bass. I bought most of this stuff either 2nd hand or at drastically low prices, but the system I have now is worth about $900 & puts out about 120db.

Marc

[corks67]

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies

yes sorry, about my first post it was a bit vague - late n tired

For starters I guess Í'm on a bit of budget for now , but yes would like to keep things openended for future upgrades perhaps. My last big car stereo in an alpine cass deck with stacker, mb quart 6.5 components in the front, alpine v12 amp , running the mb quarts and bridged to run a 10in bazooka tube, but that was pre mortgage days So for now i would be looking at a head unit and a set of front speakers.

installation would be done by a shop.

Head units - been having a look around, but to my mind the alpines still seem to be well built , even the cheapest seems to have a nice feel and design to it, whereas say clarion, pioneer in the same price range seem to feel cheaper and designed by someone on drugs imho. For the record im not biased and have owned a few difference brands in the past ( concord - remember them), JVC seem to make nice looking units but dont seem all that common in the shops.

Which is something that bugs me, walking around the shops these days, doesnt seem to be a lot of variety around - kenwood, alpine, pioneer, clarion and eclipse for electronics and not alot more variety in speakers - tho i havent had a good chance to have look around yet or it could be just the usual perth scarcity of stuff

Alot of the new decks around seem to be loaded with features im not interested in - i dont want ipod or other mp3 player connectivity, i dont need bluetooth intergration or gps. Just decent sound quality related features and the ability to play mp3's off burnt cd's (which most seem to do).

so with that and upgrading in mind - the Alpine CDE-9881 seems to fit the billl nicely.

speakers - Not sure here, I had planned to just put a set of 5x7 in the front doors and the Alpine SPR-57C with their swivel tweeters seemed to be the go here (tho at $199rrp they seem abit pricey for what they are), but perhaps i need to look abit harder here at a 6.5 components fitted, tho i noticed a couple of brands do 5x7 components. Agreed that perhaps solely speaker manufacturers make better speakers.

Agreed on not spending alot on the rears, I just figured it would be a easy way to get a bit more bass for now.

Subs not on the budget right now, but pehaps down the track a small one with a dedicated amp running it or perhaps a powered bazooka tube?

I had looked at keeping the stock mazda deck and going for a amp (via speaker level inputs) to run new speakers, but most dealers dont seem keen on that idea.

Hope this is abit more detail and helps out
thanks Dave

[Hebz]

Originally Posted by marcs_sp20

I've got a SP20, and this is what I have:

Pioneer DEH30MP mp3 cd player
JL Audio 5x7" 120w 2way speakers up front
Pioneer 6" 160w 2way speakers for rear
12"Kicker sub in ported box
4ch 600w Pioneer Amp
Sony 4g 4ch amp kit

I use to go spastic on stereo's ( I threw a $2500 stereo in my old gemini not worth even a 10th of that ), but nowadays im only after a nice crisp sound & not a lot of bass. I bought most of this stuff either 2nd hand or at drastically low prices, but the system I have now is worth about $900 & puts out about 120db.

Marc

Rly? What components did you used to have?

Originally Posted by corks67

i dont want ipod

OMG - you are my hero

Ipods can burn in Hell
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep looking around - don't make a hasty descision that you won't be happy with. But for your price range - those Alpine Headunits will go nicely.

No Sub? How can you live without bass? I'm no bassaholic - although sometimes a lot is nice. My sub is turned waaay down, but still there is so much that a Sub can offer.

Still it is your money and your desicision.

Just promise me you will spend > $20 on your speakers

Heb

[milehigheric]

Originally Posted by corks67

Hi Guys, thanks for the replies

yes sorry, about my first post it was a bit vague - late n tired

For starters I guess Í'm on a bit of budget for now , but yes would like to keep things openended for future upgrades perhaps. My last big car stereo in an alpine cass deck with stacker, mb quart 6.5 components in the front, alpine v12 amp , running the mb quarts and bridged to run a 10in bazooka tube, but that was pre mortgage days So for now i would be looking at a head unit and a set of front speakers.

installation would be done by a shop.

Head units - been having a look around, but to my mind the alpines still seem to be well built , even the cheapest seems to have a nice feel and design to it, whereas say clarion, pioneer in the same price range seem to feel cheaper and designed by someone on drugs imho. For the record im not biased and have owned a few difference brands in the past ( concord - remember them), JVC seem to make nice looking units but dont seem all that common in the shops.

Which is something that bugs me, walking around the shops these days, doesnt seem to be a lot of variety around - kenwood, alpine, pioneer, clarion and eclipse for electronics and not alot more variety in speakers - tho i havent had a good chance to have look around yet or it could be just the usual perth scarcity of stuff

Alot of the new decks around seem to be loaded with features im not interested in - i dont want ipod or other mp3 player connectivity, i dont need bluetooth intergration or gps. Just decent sound quality related features and the ability to play mp3's off burnt cd's (which most seem to do).

so with that and upgrading in mind - the Alpine CDE-9881 seems to fit the billl nicely.

speakers - Not sure here, I had planned to just put a set of 5x7 in the front doors and the Alpine SPR-57C with their swivel tweeters seemed to be the go here (tho at $199rrp they seem abit pricey for what they are), but perhaps i need to look abit harder here at a 6.5 components fitted, tho i noticed a couple of brands do 5x7 components. Agreed that perhaps solely speaker manufacturers make better speakers.

Agreed on not spending alot on the rears, I just figured it would be a easy way to get a bit more bass for now.

Subs not on the budget right now, but pehaps down the track a small one with a dedicated amp running it or perhaps a powered bazooka tube?

I had looked at keeping the stock mazda deck and going for a amp (via speaker level inputs) to run new speakers, but most dealers dont seem keen on that idea.

Hope this is abit more detail and helps out
thanks Dave

Hmm i see.....well first to the speakers. As i said before, 5 x 7's will be lucky to sound better than stockies. There oval cone makes these speakers difficult to produce that true midbass easily....My personal opinion anyway. As i said, a 6 inch or 6 and 1/2 inch speaker is piss easy to fit in most doors and will provide a massive increase in midbass.

I will be running a set of DDW6.5 splits in my car shortly. The dedicated 6" woofer is crazy and compared to similar speakers out there is pretty good value. I would suggest getting to your pro dealers in the area (where are you?). Retailers seem to be stocking more and more crap these days..again, my personal opinion

LOC's (line out converters) are an option. If you get a decent loc (eg 3.sixty etc) then the difference between a true RCA preout and the LOC is non-audible. However, LOC's are pretty expensive and in the end it could work out better to use an aftermarket unit.

As you said a sub is on the menu (maybe) later i would still be looking for a unit with 3 RCA preouts. Most, if not all of the units in this range will play MP3,AAC,WMA etc so are sweet for burnt discs. After you have the requirements sorted, look for a unit that 'feels' good to use. If your after SQ, I have heard very good things about eclipse and some of there decks look pretty sex. Maybe worth a try.If your happy with the alpine deck however, go for it. I know alot of people running Apine decks and no probs...very nice decks..again try and head to your Pro retailers.

I take it you will be runnig the fronts off an amp? This will really make a difference to the clarity of your sepakers.

-Eric

[corks67]

Hi again and thanks to all for the idea especially milehigh

okay, the plan will be to get a new head unit, to power for starters new speakers (most likely 6.5 components)in the front doors and the existing rear speakers.

down the track i will got a amp to power the front speakers and a small subbie and just run the existing rear speakers from the deck.

i will stick with the alpine deck (most likely) but would like some suggestions on speakers - i prefer a neutral sound and not to bright so i tend to stay away from the cheaper metal dome type tweeters.

if i went for a subbie, but wanted to minimise space used - what would people suggest - a 8 in in a ported box or something else???

cheers dave

[milehigheric]

The plan sounds pretty sweet, but again get out there and try as many things as you can- especially speakers....

The sub
If you just want the extra octave without the 'fully sick' , an 8 inch sub will give you what you need. Something like a DD 1508 hits crazily hard for what it is....fairly cheapish too. Ported Vs seald depends largely on the sub itself. As a general rule of thumb however, a ported box needs to be bigger than a sealed, so if space is your enemy then i would go seald. Also I have heard good things about the QMAX subs which apparently can fit under your seat....It may be a bit on the steep side however once you factor in cost for an amp.

Are you interested in CAASQ after you have some audio in there? As soon as i finish my car i should be on the circuit :P

-Eric

[corks67]

Thanks again

i guess for the sb, yes i'd like to get that extra octave in the car and not for the whole neighbourhood.

ahh okay, interesting that a ported box needs to be bigger than a sealed box, i'm use to home speaker where its the other way around. Ill keep that in mind as i'd like to minimise the amount of space used up - i was having a look around yesterday at alberts car stereo in osborne park and the guy there was showing me this neat looking shallow mount clarion subbie (not sure which model) looked good apart needing a fair bit of grunt to run it.

cheers

[DavoAust]

mate if you're looking at new front splits, my mate and i with no experience knocked up a set of speaker spacers (turning 5x7 to 6"), gaskets and installed the speakers in less than 4 hours (considering we fked up the first spacer, not bad). once you have a spacer, the second one takes around 20min to make and install..

[Mc_Nuggets]

ive got an amp and a sub hooked up too the standerd SP20 Head unit n it pumps allright, but if i did have a after market one it would pump better i recon.

[Mc_Nuggets]

opp this thread is like a year old :P