injector problems

ijw · 22-08-2004, 08:25 PM

i have just turboed my 1995 1.8 BP astina, I would like to know the injector sizes on the non turbo BP and the turbo and also the colour codings of the injectors if possible. I am still using the factory ecu with the non turbo injectors the engine runs too lean, but with the turbo injectors it runs too rich but goes like a rocket. can sombody tell me what cc injectors I need so it is not too lean or rich. or has anyone got other sugestions.

JynX · 22-08-2004, 08:34 PM

factory mgmt being the BP ecu or the BPT ecu?

If BP, anything above 0psi you have no fuel maps for.

BigMal · 22-08-2004, 09:46 PM

Running a BPT with a BP ECU is an accident waiting to happen regardless of
what injectors you use. Obviously the BPT injectors are the right ones go get
yourself a GTX ecu and have it wired in. You will need the GTX AFM as well.

ijw · 23-08-2004, 08:47 PM

I am still running the factory computer and afm (non-flap type) i am just experimenting as the car goes so well, apart from it running rich. and everybody has said the car would not even run and so far I have proved them wrong. does any one know the standard injertor flow rate is and does any one know the bp GTX injertor flow rate is.
N.B the vehicle is a 1995 BA astina 1.8
N.B don't the factory computers re-map themselves

JynX · 24-08-2004, 08:30 AM

The car will run sure enough but as you go past 0psi, the computer attempts to scale based on its last known map and in most cases you will run lean. Waking in a bigger injector wont work unless you can retune the maps. You may be able to compensate the richness by lowering the rail pressure but not an ideal solution. The ignition maps are also very different between an NA and Turbo car so you will probably run into detonation or pinging at some point in time running on the NA ecu.

Your best bet is to invest in a Fuel/Ignition computer and run it over the top of your factory management (or instead of). Somthing like a Haltech or Microtech would do the job fine.

An Apexi AFC may also give you enough play to increase the fueling for your applications but I personally dont like the idea of altering signals and would rather get somthing which can work with a base signal.

"N.B don't the factory computers re-map themselves"
The closed loop system will compensate for +-5% generally which is nowhere near enough for turbo purposes.

ROB-80E · 24-08-2004, 09:08 AM

The GTX injectors are 420cc. But yeah, your best bet is to get some sort of fuel management as Jynx said. The last thing you want to do is blow up your engine because you were too stingy to do it right the first time.

You've managed to turbo the NA motor, congrats, but don't stuff it by not running propper fuel maps for boost.

Dont know what the NA injector size is sorry dude.

ijw · 24-08-2004, 09:41 PM

I have done some reading and have found 2 conflicting stories about injectors rob-80e says the gtx injectors are 420cc and some one else in the forums (I can't remember where) states they are 330cc for the GTX and 380cc for the GTR which is correct??? :?

BigMal · 25-08-2004, 02:47 AM

330cc min to 420cc max. In the Manual it refers to both these readings the 330cc
being the lowest reading to be acceptable for use. As cleaned/New will be at the
top reading then thats why they have been called 420cc as thats what they will
flow at standard pressure in that condition. Same applies to the GTR injectors
the 380cc being the min acceptable reading.

dfvadr · 25-08-2004, 05:20 PM

i can see a motor going bang here :shock:

Nate · 25-08-2004, 08:58 PM

^^^^ true that ... but give us some pics details etc ... will be interesting to see your set up!!

Cosmo Dude · 25-08-2004, 09:14 PM

I'd be looking at your ignition.
When you get vacuum in an NA application the ignition should advance and with a turbo boost should retard the ignition.
The factory BA ECU is programmed to map ignition based only on the expected vacuum. This could lead to an incomplete fuel burn and therefore unburnt fuel being expelled from the engine (rich).
The good folk at www.flyinmiata.com have a module that will read the vacuum or boost and wired into the factory ECU changes the ignition timing to suit, they use it on their 8PSI turbo kit.
For a low boost setup this would be much cheaper than an aftermarket ECU and tuning

BigMal · 25-08-2004, 11:10 PM

Yeah its a MSD retard unit you are still better off with a GTX ECU for around
$100-$200 plus wiring.

22-08-2004, 08:25 PM	#1
ijw Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13	injector problems i have just turboed my 1995 1.8 BP astina, I would like to know the injector sizes on the non turbo BP and the turbo and also the colour codings of the injectors if possible. I am still using the factory ecu with the non turbo injectors the engine runs too lean, but with the turbo injectors it runs too rich but goes like a rocket. can sombody tell me what cc injectors I need so it is not too lean or rich. or has anyone got other sugestions.

22-08-2004, 08:34 PM	#2
JynX Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,767	factory mgmt being the BP ecu or the BPT ecu? If BP, anything above 0psi you have no fuel maps for. __________________ JynX 1994 Turbo BA Astina 200whp @ 12psi "If you cant drive fast with 90hp..... 900hp wont help you"

22-08-2004, 09:46 PM	#3
BigMal 1ST BA TURBO MEMBER Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney Car: BA Astina Turbo Posts: 4,195 View Photos By: BigMal	Running a BPT with a BP ECU is an accident waiting to happen regardless of what injectors you use. Obviously the BPT injectors are the right ones go get yourself a GTX ecu and have it wired in. You will need the GTX AFM as well. __________________ If you want wind in your hair add a Hairdryer !!!

24-08-2004, 08:30 AM	#5
JynX Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sydney Posts: 1,767	The car will run sure enough but as you go past 0psi, the computer attempts to scale based on its last known map and in most cases you will run lean. Waking in a bigger injector wont work unless you can retune the maps. You may be able to compensate the richness by lowering the rail pressure but not an ideal solution. The ignition maps are also very different between an NA and Turbo car so you will probably run into detonation or pinging at some point in time running on the NA ecu. Your best bet is to invest in a Fuel/Ignition computer and run it over the top of your factory management (or instead of). Somthing like a Haltech or Microtech would do the job fine. An Apexi AFC may also give you enough play to increase the fueling for your applications but I personally dont like the idea of altering signals and would rather get somthing which can work with a base signal. "N.B don't the factory computers re-map themselves" The closed loop system will compensate for +-5% generally which is nowhere near enough for turbo purposes. __________________ JynX 1994 Turbo BA Astina 200whp @ 12psi "If you cant drive fast with 90hp..... 900hp wont help you"

24-08-2004, 09:08 AM	#6
ROB-80E Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: SE QLD, Australia Car: Turbo BG Astina Posts: 792 View Photos By: ROB-80E	The GTX injectors are 420cc. But yeah, your best bet is to get some sort of fuel management as Jynx said. The last thing you want to do is blow up your engine because you were too stingy to do it right the first time. You've managed to turbo the NA motor, congrats, but don't stuff it by not running propper fuel maps for boost. Dont know what the NA injector size is sorry dude. __________________ BG Astina + GTR conversion + Microtech ECU + FMIC + 3" pipes and Exhaust x 21psi boost = 12.168 to the power of 326whp

23-08-2004, 08:47 PM	#4
ijw Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13	I am still running the factory computer and afm (non-flap type) i am just experimenting as the car goes so well, apart from it running rich. and everybody has said the car would not even run and so far I have proved them wrong. does any one know the standard injertor flow rate is and does any one know the bp GTX injertor flow rate is. N.B the vehicle is a 1995 BA astina 1.8 N.B don't the factory computers re-map themselves

24-08-2004, 09:41 PM	#7
ijw Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 13	I have done some reading and have found 2 conflicting stories about injectors rob-80e says the gtx injectors are 420cc and some one else in the forums (I can't remember where) states they are 330cc for the GTX and 380cc for the GTR which is correct??? :?

25-08-2004, 02:47 AM	#8
BigMal 1ST BA TURBO MEMBER Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney Car: BA Astina Turbo Posts: 4,195 View Photos By: BigMal	330cc min to 420cc max. In the Manual it refers to both these readings the 330cc being the lowest reading to be acceptable for use. As cleaned/New will be at the top reading then thats why they have been called 420cc as thats what they will flow at standard pressure in that condition. Same applies to the GTR injectors the 380cc being the min acceptable reading. __________________ If you want wind in your hair add a Hairdryer !!!

25-08-2004, 05:20 PM	#9
dfvadr Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Queensland Car: ss , sp20 , 94ba Posts: 1,708 View Photos By: dfvadr	i can see a motor going bang here :shock: __________________ 2001 SP20 Mazda Astina Turbo - t28b/b turbo teflon coated forge pistons 20thou o/size , billet rods , whole motor fully balanced - custom body kit - 18"ame's - custom interior - kenwood head unit , pioneer speakers driven by 800 watt amp , kicker subs driven by 1000 watt amps each sub [135.2db at supernats], two 1th caps 4 tv screens dvd player - xbox - airbag suspension with gas strut towers - custom plates an airbrushing on bonnet

25-08-2004, 08:58 PM	#10
Nate Pandaspeed Racing Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Brisney Land Car: BG SP Posts: 4,170 View Photos By: Nate	^^^^ true that ... but give us some pics details etc ... will be interesting to see your set up!! __________________ Life would be straight without twisties STOCK AS A ROCKET! •motor sport is dangerous and that accidents causing harm can and do happen and may happen to me. I accept the conditions of, and acknowledge the risks arising from, attending or participating in the event and being provided with the event services by CAMS and the Associated Entities I THINK I AM N2!

25-08-2004, 09:14 PM	#11
Cosmo Dude コスモ Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Location: Vic Car: Mazda '95 Astina I4, '86 B2K and '10 3 MZR-CD Posts: 7,888 View Photos By: Cosmo Dude	I'd be looking at your ignition. When you get vacuum in an NA application the ignition should advance and with a turbo boost should retard the ignition. The factory BA ECU is programmed to map ignition based only on the expected vacuum. This could lead to an incomplete fuel burn and therefore unburnt fuel being expelled from the engine (rich). The good folk at www.flyinmiata.com have a module that will read the vacuum or boost and wired into the factory ECU changes the ignition timing to suit, they use it on their 8PSI turbo kit. For a low boost setup this would be much cheaper than an aftermarket ECU and tuning __________________ My 'stina Hatch

25-08-2004, 11:10 PM	#12
BigMal 1ST BA TURBO MEMBER Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sydney Car: BA Astina Turbo Posts: 4,195 View Photos By: BigMal	Yeah its a MSD retard unit you are still better off with a GTX ECU for around $100-$200 plus wiring. __________________ If you want wind in your hair add a Hairdryer !!!