Which Engine Oils should I use in my BJII SP20?

[sherrif]

Last week I began a Melbourne Mazda Dealer telephone exercise to find out why my car shudders on a cold start up once in a blue moon.

For those of you that are reading this forum you may have read my last forum dated 03-03-2006 titled 'BJII SP20 Engine Shudder on Start Up'. Some of you indicated that it may be my coil packs that are playing up which is an expensive fix if that is not the problem.

Here's how the phone poll went around Melbourne:

Brighton: ROD - Knows of problem as his wife owns a SP20 and does the same thing. Hasn't had the time to research the problem as yet but is interested in what I find out.

Burwood: GRANT - Unknown problem

Dandenong: KURK - Possible Ignition Lead/Coil Packs.

Essendon: CHRISTIAN - Unknown problem

Hoppers Crossing: SAM - I am using the wrong oil (Penrite 15W60) and should be using a 10W30 based oil such as Mobil 1.

Mulgrave: Am still waiting for a call back from a Mr Bill Black.

Preston: ALISTAIR - Unknown problem but was also interested in my findings.

Ringwood: COLIN - Unknown problem.

Seaford: GARY - I am using the wrong oil (Penrite 15W60) and should be using a 10W30 based oil such as Mobil 1 or Mobil Synthetic S (10W40). According to Gary the problem is that air is getting into the H.L.A's (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster) and causing a 'sticky lifter'.

So there you go on my phone poll and what each dealer had to say. Why am I using Penrite 15W60 you may ask? Well when I brought the car back in December 2002 the dealer I brought it off was using Shell Helix Plus 15W40. They then went to Castrol Magnatec 10W40 of which I am not a fan of as I have heard bad reports when you then change to Magnatec from using another oil. Apparantly it's a great oil if you use it in your cars engine from day one, but don't use it when you've been running a different oil. These comments come from a mate of mine who builds engines for Australian and American muscle cars and from a bloke at Bursons who said the same thing. I suppose it's a matter of opinion!

So the cheap fix at the moment is to drop the oil and replace it with either a 10W30 oil (Caltex Havoline Premium Plus @ $32 for 5L or Mobil 1 @ $87 for 5L!) or 10W40 oil (Caltex Havoline Semi Synthetic @ $24 for 5L, Mobil Synthetic S @ $28 for 5L, Fuchs Super GTO Synthetic oil @ $41 for 5L, Castrol Magnatec Semi Synthetic oil @ $28 for 5L) and see whether this will fix the problem. Our Mazda Owners manual page 8-13 actually recommends using 10W30/40/50 so I am at a lose as to why they were using Shell Helix 15W40?

Changing the Coil Packs at a price of $150 each (approx) doesn't sit well with my wallet just now but it has been of interest to learn that when Mazda hook up the diagnostic computer to your car it will NOT pick up whether your coil packs are faulty. The only way of testing them is apparantly with the engine top cover removed and engine running is to tap the top of them with a screw driver handle and see/hear what your engine does. I'll tackle that one after I change the oil.

It's been an interesting sesssion talking to all the mazda Dealers around Melbourne on whether they knew of this problem as not even Head Office knew of this problem until know. Apparantly every Mazda dealer has the oppurtunity in ringing Head Office to ask the same questions that I have but do you think the dealer that I take my car to bothered, of course not!

So what engine oil do you people use in your 2001/2002 SP20? Some of the Mazda dealers around Melbourne use either Castrol Magnatec, Mobil 1 or Mobil Synthetic S, both of which are 10W40.

I await your invaluable feedback as Mazda Head Office don't seem to know much at all whaich is why I am going straight to the coal face - YOU GUYS!

[woofy]

Um just to check, is this shudder while you are driving it, our at idle? If it shudders when cold and driving and then it goes away, its not the engine but rather the clutch. We had that prob in our car as well, and I thought it can't be the clutch cause ti only happened when cold, but it turned out it was. Arden had the same problem as well. Pretty much all SP20s from the first BJII series had it, and it was fixed in the BJIIJ48 series.

Bascially in our case there is a fault that mazda had with BJII series SP20s and Sports editions where the clutch caused shuddering when cold but was fine after. It was in a Technical service bulletin and we got a brand new clutch free of charge at 50,000kms, but we were under warranty and still are.

[butters323]

Originally Posted by woofy

Um just to check, is this shudder while you are driving it, our at idle? If it shudders when cold and driving and then it goes away, its not the engine but rather the clutch. We had that prob in our car as well, and I thought it can't be the clutch cause ti only happened when cold, but it turned out it was. Arden had the same problem as well. Pretty much all SP20s from the first BJII series had it, and it was fixed in the BJIIJ48 series.

Bascially in our case there is a fault that mazda had with BJII series SP20s and Sports editions where the clutch caused shuddering when cold but was fine after. It was in a Technical service bulletin and we got a brand new clutch free of charge at 50,000kms, but we were under warranty and still are.

im a BJII (not sp20) but not a j48 and i had the same problem. new clutch fixed it all!!!!

[arden]

Castrol Formula R - 5w30 here.

Havent tried Castrols new range yet.

[MitchEG]

Seaford: GARY - I am using the wrong oil (Penrite 15W60) and should be using a 10W30 based oil such as Mobil 1 or Mobil Synthetic S (10W40). According to Gary the problem is that air is getting into the H.L.A's (Hydraulic Lash Adjuster) and causing a 'sticky lifter'.

well you can write gary off completley as the bj's do not have HLA's in the head to get sticky.

btw, i use motul 10W40 semi-synthetic in my car and it seems good.

[butters323]

ya i honestly dont think oil would be a problem.

[Cosmo Dude]

HLAs would clatter on startup. Ignition packs would be a consistant problem (not just startup).
Could just be a sensor, try reading the error codes from the ECU.

[twilightprotege]

HLA's hey? riiiiiigggghhhhtttt.....

everyone take notice. NEVER go to that mazda dealer ever!!!!!!!!!!!

[MitchEG]

haha, i got told the exact same thing by eagers mazda in bris a year ago, said they did an oil flush and my lifters were quiiet now....yeah right. Needless to say, i have avoided that dealer ever since.

[skippy]

aren't HLA the things that make the little sewing machine noise on start up?

anyway how bad does the car shudder?
does it do when in neutral, clutch in or in gear?

[sherrif]

My car will shudder for a split second on a cold start, ie: first start for the day. It does NOT shudder whilst idling or driving so I don't believe it's the clutch. Even whilst changing gears the car does NOT shudder, just on start up for a 'nano' of a second.

[Laser the Amazer]

my BJ taps like crazy when cold and hasn't been started for a day or too.

I have a 1.6 with just under 90,000kms on it

I run Shell Helix Plus 15W-50 Semi Synthetic

I'm running what Mazda reccomend and it goes away after 30 seconds so I live with it.

Rob

[ezin]

I still belive its ur coils, when u say 'shudder' do mean the engine rocks back and forth for like maybe two seconds when started once in a blue moon and it kind of feels like the engine is not fireing all the cylinders but comes good very quickly? I say this because my sp20 used to do that, i did not really worry about it as the car ran, then one day it did not, number 2-3 coil had a meltdown and popped the top of the thing. The only advise i can give is just keep driving the car until something presents itself. Then hopfully the part that broke can be replaced with a modified part by mazda in the process, then that problem will be fixed leaving the door open for bigger and better problems to do your head in.

*just an additional
New coils have been in now for 4 months, car has not shuddered since, but thats in my case, the leaking injector is a dam good theory so dont discount that and if your car has done some km's it may be a good time to pull the injectors out for a clean and leak test, asking whoever does it to pay attention to the seals as they may be faulty, if they are all good then look on the upside, your injectors are clean. Now if its not that you may think to get your coils checked but heres the kicker, The coils test fine (why) Because exactly like you said, the problem only happens very rarely which means the same will happen in the testing process, thats why mazda cant fault it and because the coil is an output from the ecu it does not pick up if its malfunctioning, thus it does not log a trouble code for the tech's to nut out.

And regarding the oil, forget about that being it. Im not going to get into that , its just a no no no from me.

Mobil 1 5w50

[Rupewrecht]

I'd says it's coils or dizzy. I used to get that shudder on startup for a few seconds until the car actually ran properly. But in my case i changed the distributor and it's never started as well as it does now - first time every time.