2.0L Supercharger??

[KrayzieFox]

So I've been doing some comparing between the two continents as far as what mods are available to Australia vs. USA and I couldn't find much info on the topic of 2.0L Superchargers. I can see that a lot of people have successfully supercharged their 1.6L Astina/Proteges but nothin for the 2.0L

A guy from my local forum attempted to bring one to life a couple years back, but it went down the drain after a lot of setbacks with various vendors and such. Actually, since some of you visit the yank forums (I can't stop using that word ) you may have heard of the WOMP (Weapon of Mass Propulsion) being developed. Here's a pic to feed the eyes ..







And dyno sheet to show the results. A WOMPin' 158HP at a mere 4.5PSI!!

[KrayzieFox]

This probably should've been posted in the performance or FI section. Mods, please feel free to move thread if needed.

[chicaboo]

The torque output on that is amazing! What is MattyP up to these days?

Gav.

[KrayzieFox]

Well he got rid of the Protege5, and now he's got a Mazdaspeed 6 he's all into. Those cars are unreal .. And I think he also has a couple "old skool" RX-7 projects he's workin on. Besides that, I dunno honestly. Swing by www.mazda3club.com if you'd like and drop in a word or two. He's known as Roddimus Prime over there and he's one of the uber mods of the forum.

[outbakoz]

Holy Boosted Batman

I just read through 50 odd pages on that link, the potential is enormous.

So i went looking through some other sites and found this



I know its for a ford focus 02-03 but I wonder if that shaft drive option would negate the removal of the aircon and reduce the amount of piping required.

Food for thought

[KrayzieFox]

^^ That looks mean!!

[blacksp20]

that type of setup would be ideal for the FS/FP powered 323's. short piping between the charger/cooler/throttle would help reduce any throttle lag and the shaft drive might mean that the power steering and aircon could both be kept.

I think we need to do some more investigation into that kit and see if it could be adapted to the 323.

[chicaboo]

The kit up the top DOES elimenate the AC and PS too I think... Only way to get around it put the SC over the gearbox or right on the intake mani.

Gav.

[blacksp20]

alright, i just looked at the CAPA site and that kit for the focus is like $6,000+ without engine/fuel management.

http://www.capa.com.au/kits_vortech_ford.htm

seems that vortech also use the shaft technology for honda engines
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/...119&cat_key=15

[outbakoz]

Yeah but we don't need the whole kit, i would prefer the setup without the air cooler which is approx $1500 of the $6000. So $4500 looks way more attractive.

I would much prefer the powerdyne centifugal as it is a quiet drive that requires no oil feed which would also reduce cost. So it'd be a bit of a bitzer system but i reckon its possible.

The only thing that i am researching atm is that superchargers only develop max psi at max revs. Trying to find out if there is a system (similar to a wastegate theory for turbos) where you could over size the blower so it'll push say 18 psi but limit it via a bypass to 7 for an na motor adaptation but be able to wind it up when the engine gets worked up to forgies, etc, etc.

Hopefully that would mean max boost at approx 3500 rpm all the way to redline (in theory) so it's more attractive comparing it to the peak power of the turbo

[LordWorm]

as far as i know WOMP is dead, but i did look into another centrifugal option (better) for the FSDE...
gave up on the idea as it required relocation of the powersteering and aircon to fit..
problem with the powerdyne silent drive is that it is HUGE, makes very little boost, and did I mention huge?

a "decent" gear driven centrifugal will spool to insane boost pressures....

There is a helical type blower option floating around on some korean site somewhere....chicaboo knows more about its chocolate chocolate skirt rise sardine potential (and i'm sure he'll explain all that too)

[outbakoz]

Yes after reading 50 pages of posts, WOMP officially died and as stated (twice above) the guy that made the one and only existing one in the states sold it and bought a mazda 6. WOMP required the air con to be removed which, in my case is not an alternative.

The thing that makes the Powerdyne attractive is the torque shaft drive and the ability to have it over the gearbox on the passenger side. Most of the power charts i have seen for lyshom and twin screws indicate a 6-7 kw/psi increase, still researching the centrifugal.

I'll see if i can get some dimension specs on some of the centrifugals so we can compare

[chicaboo]

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[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by outbakoz

Yes after reading 50 pages of posts, WOMP officially died and as stated (twice above) the guy that made the one and only existing one in the states sold it and bought a mazda 6. WOMP required the air con to be removed which, in my case is not an alternative.

The thing that makes the Powerdyne attractive is the torque shaft drive and the ability to have it over the gearbox on the passenger side. Most of the power charts i have seen for lyshom and twin screws indicate a 6-7 kw/psi increase, still researching the centrifugal.

I'll see if i can get some dimension specs on some of the centrifugals so we can compare

I believe the loss of the aircon was due to a lack of creativity... just purely eyeballing it, no measurements taken, i was looking at relocating the powersteering accessory to the back (i think...was 6 months ago)...and creating some room that way.

Powerdyne was excluded because there was no way to get more then 9psi of pressure out of it before it would fly appart.

Paxton Novi centri was what i was looking at.

Centrifugals have massive advantages over positive displacement blowers - namely no need for a bypass valve (they simply don't "spool up" at low engine speeds so no need to turn them off), and the fact that they are compressor type blower (like a turbo). Also, very easy to intercool....positive displacement in its best possible configuration sits in or above a custom intake manifold....short of chemical intercooling (water injection) theres nothing you can do....if you remotely mount it, you compound the ineffeciencies...

Disadvantages are almost as numerous as turbo though, namely lag...but i don't think it'd be as bad as a turbo as you don't need to build exhaust pressure to get it turning around...

i barely scratched the surface before i realised it'd be a costly exersize, and turbo would be far cheaper...having always said i'd never turbo this car (for various reasons...) i hung up the forced induction idea for good..

i have some notes i made laying around, i'll try and dig them out....

but essentially, if you want to do it right, gear driven head unit on a centrifugal blower (as opposed to belt driven like the powerdyne, and i don't mean driven off the gearbox, or driven off a belt, all centris are driven off an accessory belt, i mean how the internals of the headunit which gear up the input from the blower pulley.....) is the best way to go.

Expensive way to go...interesting project, but if chasing HUGE horsepower, turbo is a proven way to go - just do that

edit: torque bar thingy would work no matter what you chose..... issues with it is you are introducing another item to transfer the force required to spin the charger - and introduces a saftey thing (if you happen to be wearing a neck tie and open your bonnet while your engine is running....) - not to mention getting it ballanced etc....lots of$$$

[outbakoz]

Originally Posted by LordWorm

Powerdyne was excluded because there was no way to get more then 9psi of pressure out of it before it would fly apart.

Thats a scary exercise

Originally Posted by LordWorm

i have some notes i made laying around, i'll try and dig them out....

That is muchly appreciated

Originally Posted by LordWorm

torque bar thingy would work no matter what you chose..... issues with it is you are introducing another item to transfer the force required to spin the charger - and introduces a saftey thing (if you happen to be wearing a neck tie and open your bonnet while your engine is running....) - not to mention getting it ballanced etc....lots of$$$

All the setups i've looked/read about, the torque shaft is encased. No rotating shaft to get my neck tie caught in Couple of sites have stated that a only having a bearing at each end induces problems, most run a centre bearing to reduce the load.

Originally Posted by LordWorm

Paxton Novi centri was what i was looking at.

I noticed these on the capa.com.au site but they seem to be quoted only in $US + Freight + duty etc. So the head would end up being the most expensive of the choices i have found so far

I was looking at supercharger in preference to turbo because i don't want a top end hp monster, i effectively want a smoother ride that has the extra grunt anywhere in the rev range.

[LordWorm]

Originally Posted by outbakoz

I was looking at supercharger in preference to turbo because i don't want a top end hp monster, i effectively want a smoother ride that has the extra grunt anywhere in the rev range.

I wouldn't suggest centrifugal for your application then.

Centrifugal is a crank driven turbo - and needs to "spool up" like a turbo.

if you just want a shade extra power, at the flick of a switch, a mild roots type or screw type blower would be the go.

expense comes in the fabrication of the IM....

Have a look at what Eaton make....greddy also make screw type blowers i think...and theres whipple..

[chicaboo]

Originally Posted by LordWorm

I wouldn't suggest centrifugal for your application then.

Centrifugal is a crank driven turbo - and needs to "spool up" like a turbo.

Yes, but it's power/rpm, not power/load like a turbo. So it's the same power every time, and you don't fall off boost because you spin the tyres and reduce load. Just a minor advantage for SCers...

[Protege]

Originally Posted by KrayzieFox

I can see that a lot of people have successfully supercharged their 1.6L Astina/Proteges but nothin for the 2.0L

Where did you see those 1.6's?
I never stumbled upon any that was supercharged.

[chicaboo]

1.6 motor for the Miata/MX-5 is popular with superchargers.

Gav.