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Old 10-11-2007, 09:59 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
Read the whole post again mate. But i'll break it down for you okay:-

Mr Johnny = you
in 1,000 parts, (spider gears gone in diff,) = parted but all ok except diff
if you like for yourself. = $0 (maybe $20 if you feel like it)
It's just sitting in the garage collecting dust. = needs to go
Ryan = me

lol

Ryan
now now, no need to be condecending ryan, people don't like that and it results in people turning the littlest comment into the biggest commotion!... not me though

also, i'll take the box of parts if nobody else wants them

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Old 10-11-2007, 10:11 AM   #22
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nah i'm sure john knows i'm only joking. i'm just in a joking mood today.

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Old 10-11-2007, 02:59 PM   #23
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Thumbs down

Zappy, you are aware that a stardard BPT motor with a mod list of:-
- Microtech
- FMIC
- 3" Exhaust
- 2.5" dump
- VF10/VJ20 hybrid
- 460cc injectors
- Walbro pump, and
- 16psi of boost
is more than capable of running 160kw atw reliably all day every day? The only other thing i'd add in is the LSD and straight cut third for the gearbox.

I just can't see how you doing all the other mods that you have listed, for quite a pitiful power output is warrented. Don't get me wrong, i'm not baggin you for doing it, i just think you can save yourself ALOT of dollars for little improvment...after all, it's the turbo that pushes the air in.

If you're dead set on a VF10, i personally wouldn't touch the head. Leave it and the manifold totoally standard. You want to keep the air velosity up as much as you can.

My opinion....slap a bigger turbo on to match your intended mods, or rethink your mod list.

P.S.
Having a FWD with big responce = bad. Trust me, i know. The lag of the VJ23 over the VF10 is suited to FWD. If your going for responce with FWD, all you are doing is wearing out your tyres and going nowhere. My car even with the lag, would be useless without the AVCR EBC. LSD doesn't help it either (although it would be even worse without it). More food for thought.
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Old 10-11-2007, 03:25 PM   #24
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I agree with Rob if response is all you want i would save your money and not worry about internals or head work. I am making 170kw atw with a vf10, all with similar mods to what Rob listed.

i currently have 17" semi slicks on the front and it still smokes them up through all of second and bit of 3rd. Its fun to start wit but trust me you get over it when you cant get traction.

If you have plans of going bigger turbo down the track which will happen i garentee, id probably do the botom end now so you dont have to worry bout it later. but in the end it is really up to how much you want to spend and what u want the car to do.

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Old 10-11-2007, 10:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROB-80E View Post
Zappy, you are aware that a stardard BPT motor with a mod list of:-
- Microtech
- FMIC
- 3" Exhaust
- 2.5" dump
- VF10/VJ20 hybrid
- 460cc injectors
- Walbro pump, and
- 16psi of boost
is more than capable of running 160kw atw reliably all day every day? The only other thing i'd add in is the LSD and straight cut third for the gearbox.

I just can't see how you doing all the other mods that you have listed, for quite a pitiful power output is warrented. Don't get me wrong, i'm not baggin you for doing it, i just think you can save yourself ALOT of dollars for little improvment...after all, it's the turbo that pushes the air in.

If you're dead set on a VF10, i personally wouldn't touch the head. Leave it and the manifold totoally standard. You want to keep the air velosity up as much as you can.

My opinion....slap a bigger turbo on to match your intended mods, or rethink your mod list.

P.S.
Having a FWD with big responce = bad. Trust me, i know. The lag of the VJ23 over the VF10 is suited to FWD. If your going for responce with FWD, all you are doing is wearing out your tyres and going nowhere. My car even with the lag, would be useless without the AVCR EBC. LSD doesn't help it either (although it would be even worse without it). More food for thought.


Hey thanks for the feedback Rob, No i didnt know the BPT could run 160kw everyday, thats why we first timers need this input, to help us find what we didnt know...soon you could help with twith the toyota gearbox conversion eh?...lol i wasnt aware that the BPT could be so resiliant...i really would like a track demoned...some very zippy, once it hits boost it will pull, not something that will tear the quarter mile....RYAN, i will take your box mate, ill PM you soon with the details on picking it up....might come in handy, i need to learn a bit more about them,...thanks for that...Newman, we all know what your about, just dont put that stuff on this thread, its all about opinions, i take sh@t well, your business with others is YOUR OWN buisness, i have no query with anybody here, when i abuse you know i have problems.....ANYWAY back on topic....oh yeah Rob if you look on the gearbox list i have the suggested parts already listed...keep the feedback comin....John

EDIT: So Rob what would you suggest??? for internal modification then??? GTX conrods wouldnt stand the push and you havent listed forgies, i dont want to hit 200kw atw because im not made of gearboxes and im very tolerant to getting pi$$ed off when something spits the dumby....all the time, i really want a track warrior, a quick thing that can keep up with alot of others....i want something that can be built and be fun without being straining, you see i made this thread to collect input from people like you and Ross and Dav and Luke and so on, but i want to make it better then a simple swap and break later on....i really like your truthfulness, i will definetly rethink my mods if i can make 160kw with less $, thanks again mate...John by the way, VF12 is what i will use, if i can help it....Me and Gav have had talk and his looks very competent but we will see...
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Last edited by zappy65; 10-11-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 10-11-2007, 11:04 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newman View Post
now now, no need to be condecending ryan, people don't like that and it results in people turning the littlest comment into the biggest commotion!... not me though

also, i'll take the box of parts if nobody else wants them
sly dig on me again.. hahahah

I think the VF12 will suit your application more zappy, it will be a tad more laggy but with the right flow through the head im sure i will open your eyes and throw you in your seat..

this is going to be a famous build..
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:26 AM   #27
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John,

When you come up to collect the gearbox, you may take a look at the BPT in my garage. Pull it apart have have a looksee youself at the inturnals. This engine did 145kW on 14psi with VJ20 and stock inturnals.

Ryan
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:48 AM   #28
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And what happened to it??? the reason i want to change the internals is because:
1. The engine will be sitting there anyway (it has to be stripped anyway
2. Its not that hard and it has a lot of pro's
3. Ive heard B6T rods handle 22psi fine and i only want 16-18psi
4. I dont see the point in spending $1800 for an engine and being limited in the long run by internals, once its in the BG, its harder to rebuild
5. I have a car while i do the rebuild....My BG DOHC....
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:50 AM   #29
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Dyno sheet 1 (147.5kw)

Mods:-
- Microtech LT8
- VF10/VJ20 Hybrid
- 2.5" Dump pipe
- 3" exhaust
- FMIC with 2.5" in and 3" out piping
- K&N pod
- RRFPR
- GTR intake manifold
- 12psi boost

Dyno sheet 2 (163.1kw)

Mods:-
(as above, plus)
- 460cc injectors
- Walbro fuel pump
- 16psi boost

There is no reason what so ever that this setup isn't both reliable and zippy. However, as i said in my previous post, stick with the gearbox mods of Stright cut 3rd and LSD. I personally never broke a box at this power output, but i know of a few people that have stipped 3rd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappy
So Rob what would you suggest??? for internal modification then??? GTX conrods wouldnt stand the push and you havent listed forgies, i dont want to hit 200kw atw because im not made of gearboxes
Your choice of turbo is what is setting your benchmark for power out and the amount of boost you can run. If your going to run a VF12, again they are pretty useless at anything up to and over 18psi. 18pound is the "limit" to which you'd want to push GTX rods. This is the "safe limit" anyway. I have seen stock engines push more than this...but i have pics of the end result.
Gearboxes...since i've cryo'd, straight cut 3rd and LSD i haven't broken one at 214kw atw. So really, i'd have to rule that out as a concern. These mods you've already said you want to do, and as I said earlier, stick with them.
Internals, nothing wrong with stock pistons...at all. If you can get a replacement ring set for em, I'd do that and put your B6T rods in to be extra safe.

I'm not even going to touch on the fact that you want to use the car for track (not drag), because I don't think it has anything to do with the engine. It's a suspention thing that is ultimatly going to dictate how well you can get traction and handle on the track. But in 1/4mile terms, everything that has been listed is a consistant sub 14sec car.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
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4. I dont see the point in spending $1800 for an engine and being limited in the long run by internals, once its in the BG, its harder to rebuild
That's the first comment i've noticed that suggests you "might" want more than you think you do.

Note - all my comments and suggestions have been structured around the fact that you are very adamit on the power out that you want. Opening a kettle of fish like that might be a different story.
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:32 AM   #31
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no really i just want more reliability....ive seen alot of guys just throw a GTX in and love it for months and then go bigger and then go bang, if i do all this now i can go bigger with reliabilty....plus once i have the GTX in i wont a have a car to drive if anything does go wrong.....while im doing this rebuild i have the DOHC so i dont have a great time restraint.....take it nice and easy and do the job properly once...
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:47 PM   #32
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And i originally thought that the GTX was weak for boost over 16psi or KW over 150kw atw....i didnt know that it could handle 160-170 without a problem....
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Old 12-11-2007, 06:54 PM   #33
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i have a new cool list, details soon...
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Old 14-11-2007, 06:17 PM   #34
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Ojay, so i have a new list of things, after discussing with some more experienced pep's then me i have decided that i dont need to spend $7000 to get what i want....so without furthur adue....

BLOCK:
BPT Block
BPD Piston Crowns
New Piston Rings
B6T Con Rods (ShotPeened)
BPT Crank (Balanced)
New Head Gasket (Brands?)
New Crank Seal
Mazdaspeed Oil Pump
New Thermostat and Housing Gasket

HEAD:
Port & Polish (Because its Free!)
New Cam Seals
New Timing Belt
Adjustable Cam Gears (If i really need them) (Brands?)
New Valve Cover Seal

GEARBOX:
G Series Gearbox
MazdaSpeed or equivalant LSD (What are some other good brands?)
Straight Cut 3rd (PPG good enough?)
New HD Clutch and Pressure Plate
New Rear Main Seal
Gear Set Cryogenically Frozen

TURBO:
VF12
Custom Dump pipe (2.5")
Custom welded Flange on the Exhaust Manifold

COOLING:
New Radiator + New Pipes
New Thermofan
FMIC with steel piping and silicon joints

FUEL:
FPR
Walbro 255 lhr fuel pump (in tank)
450cc Bosch injectors

LIQUIDS:
ALL!!!!!!

ENGINE MANAGEMENT:
I dont quite know, there ARE SO MANY CONFLICTING OPINIONS!

Thats bascially it, Im aiming for 170kw atw, I now know that this is achievable without a rebuild but as it has been pointed out before, the engine is going on 20 years old....and only god knows what sort of life it had....plus with a fresh engine it'll go for anther 100,000km strongly....hopefully...lol,,,again opinions and harsh comments are recommended....chers guys...
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Old 15-11-2007, 04:29 PM   #35
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sounds good to me leaves you open for more power later on if thats what u desire. 170kw is pretty good enough to fry semi slicks in 2nd and 3rd ;-)
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Old 15-11-2007, 05:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappy65 View Post
New Head Gasket (Brands?)

Port & Polish (Because its Free!)

Adjustable Cam Gears (If i really need them) (Brands?)

MazdaSpeed or equivalant LSD (What are some other good brands?)
Straight Cut 3rd (PPG good enough?)
New HD Clutch and Pressure Plate

FMIC with steel piping and silicon joints
Head gasket - Factory is best. They are already a metal tripple layer. ACL if by chance you can't get a factory one.

Port/polish - Make sure you get your manifolds port matched too.

Cam gears - you won't need em. If you want em for looks...Fidanzda are about the cheapest at ~$350 a pair.

LSD - There's nothing else really available for the price. Only other "cheap" solution is a Phantom grip. With the inherant weaknesses in the Mazda open diffs, i wouldn't be using one.

Straight cut 3rd - PPG don't make em, contact PAR in sydney. $850 supply.

Clutch - Who are you going to use? Have you put any thoughts as to what type of clutch you want? Jim Berry in Stones Corner has always made the best clutches for me.

Piping - When you say "steel", i hope you mean stainless.

Other than that...*thumbs up*
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Old 15-11-2007, 05:19 PM   #37
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HAHAHA! I have done it.....ok answers to Q's
1. Clutch: Exedy Heavy Duty...i thought it would be preactical and it would handle the power
2. Piping: Stainless Steel is correct....
3. I can get a Mazda Head Gasket for $146 staff price, i also already have all the other gaskets and seals for a carton of Carona's hows that for a price...lol...yay!
4. MazdaSpeed LSD..is a go then, where would i source one?
5.Would i use 3" for in on the FMIC and 2.5" out or would it be better just to use 3" all round
6. What brand FMIC is reliable and good, What size can fit into the front bar nicely?
7. Engine Management: ?????
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Old 15-11-2007, 05:32 PM   #38
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you can have a standard clutch like i had but just change the springs in it to up the clamping pressure...i got a 2000lb clamping pressure one...rupe said its more than his, so id suspect this would be sufficient for you zapps..
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Old 15-11-2007, 07:11 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappy65 View Post
4. MazdaSpeed LSD..is a go then, where would i source one?
5.Would i use 3" for in on the FMIC and 2.5" out or would it be better just to use 3" all round
6. What brand FMIC is reliable and good, What size can fit into the front bar nicely?
7. Engine Management: ?????
4 - I went through a NZ mazda company. Canterbury Mazda i think.
5 - 2.5" all round is best.
6 - PWR or Hybrid. 600x300 was a ...can't. Got it to fit but was a fair bit of chopping going on. Anything smaller that that will be fine...eg 450x250.
7 - Up to you...i'm over debating engine management. Just think about how much your car is worth. Thus what is worthwhile putting in it. I use the equipment i use for many good reasons. I personally don't have any issues with my setup.
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Old 15-11-2007, 07:16 PM   #40
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Quote:
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you can have a standard clutch like i had but just change the springs in it to up the clamping pressure...i got a 2000lb clamping pressure one...rupe said its more than his, so id suspect this would be sufficient for you zapps..
Im afraid id burn out the normal clutch too much...especially if i altered the clamping pressure...170kw is alot of power and not to mention torque on boost to deliver to a standard exedy clutch....and i also dont wan to much slippage, i find now that my clutch slips and i have put an exedy standard into it already!
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