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Old 08-01-2010, 11:26 AM   #1
Mad Mat
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HELP FS-DE vs FS-DET

hey guys,

i need to know ergently what the difference are between the fs-de and the fs-det from the usa..........
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Old 08-01-2010, 11:47 AM   #2
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I'll start the list:

- The DET was only offered in the US and they have crap cams. Its a technicality as we have better cams anyway.
- The DET compression ratio is lower 9.0:1. SP20 is 9.7:1 which means you will have less room for increasing the boost safely due to the higher compression on stock pistons/rods.
- The DET has an oil cooler on the back of the block (between the block and oil filter) that links into the radiator system to aid cooling
- There is an extra bung in the front of the block to take the oil return line. Im not sure about any other oil/water lines required for the turbo.
- Then you have all turbo hardware - exhaust manifold, turbo itself, intercooler, piping
- Also, because they use a side-mount intercooler (SMIC) the radiator and a/c condensor are also different, perhaps the a/c compressor pump too.
- The ECU is different too. At an absolute minimum you will need a piggyback computer to adjust the fuelling.

Have a look on the forum for Pete's thread about boosting his white SP20. There should be some more information there.
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Old 08-01-2010, 02:39 PM   #3
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This site will also help you out

http://www.protegefaq.net/
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Old 08-01-2010, 07:48 PM   #4
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intake cam and loom are different also
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Old 10-01-2010, 12:28 AM   #5
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I wouldnt think it worth it even with the difference in compression most people find its only a matter of time till they join the zoom zoom boom club.

I dont think a SP20 engine in aus would cope very well with a turbo strapped to it. Sure you could run less boost but at 4-5 k for a kit you could prolly sell the SP20 and get a car thatd just be as quick or buy parts to make the car almost as fast
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:12 PM   #6
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ya thats tru. but i love my sp20 and i'm keeping her

Quote:
Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
intake cam and loom are different also
ya i will plan on getting new cams and ecu
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:03 PM   #7
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if you are going to waste your money, get a jap spec FS-ZE, Its 30 KW more powerful than an aus spec sp 20.
Thats more power than a set of cams and a ecu will give you from your car.
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Old 11-01-2010, 08:06 PM   #8
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I dont think Mat's going to be changing his mind any time soon phil
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:28 PM   #9
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I looked at rebuilding my FP engine and turboing it as it supposedly is a better engine for turboing.
I don't think its worth the expense as everyone I have heard of putting a turbo on a FS or FP has gone through numerous engines/gearboxes.
Hence why I am thinking of a FS-ZE in my car.
Have a chat to Ric at the next dyno day about turboing ur car.

A better thought for a awesome mod would be :
Is it possible to put a Mazda 3 MPS engine into your car?
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildough View Post

A better thought for a awesome mod would be :
Is it possible to put a Mazda 3 MPS engine into your car?
Simple answer: No. the engine are backwards, and would need basically double the money needed to get it working compared to properly turbo'ing an FP or FS motor...
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcs_sp20 View Post
I dont think Mat's going to be changing his mind any time soon phil
dam right marc.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildough View Post
if you are going to waste your money, get a jap spec FS-ZE, Its 30 KW more powerful than an aus spec sp 20.
Thats more power than a set of cams and a ecu will give you from your car.
The FS-ZE also has a different intake manifold (not sure about AUS, cant remember if we have the same), higher compression pistons and the ECU.

IIRC they also have different intake piping. Dont have that harmonic chamber thingy. Theres some complicated name for it, and the reasons behind it are fair enough too, but the FS-ZE comes with out it Not sure on cams either i know there different to the US cams by alot but i never bothered looking into the diff between AUS and FS-ZE cams. Regrinds ftw!
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice88 View Post
The FS-ZE also has a different intake manifold (not sure about AUS, cant remember if we have the same), higher compression pistons and the ECU.

IIRC they also have different intake piping. Dont have that harmonic chamber thingy. Theres some complicated name for it, and the reasons behind it are fair enough too, but the FS-ZE comes with out it
And apart from the cams and ECU, it does have high compression pistons - SP20 9.7:1 and FS-ZE 10.4:1.

FS-ZE does have a different manifold than the SP20. I didnt think that the intake piping was any different to an SP20 in front of the throttle body. I know that the FS-ZE intake manifold has a resonator chamber on it that no other FS intake manifold does.

In any case, there are those that turbo and there are those that stay N/A
Good luck with it all Mat.
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:27 PM   #14
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yer NA= Naturally ANGRY
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Old 12-01-2010, 02:32 PM   #15
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from this photo, I would assume the intake has shorter runners as it sits a lot lower then the FS-DE intake manifold, same goes for the TB...



Doesnt the FS-ZE also have more sensors? You'd be best changing over not just the ECU, but the loom as well...
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Old 13-07-2010, 08:44 PM   #16
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Bring this back from the dead.

From personal experience with converting my white sp20 from non turbo to turbo.
if your chasing 120kw at the wheels and above, you will need to build a tough motor.

it is heavily documented that people with excess on 120kw at the wheels do ruin the bottom end quite easily and in a short time frame.

I currently have 115kw at the wheels with 10psi with a completely standard aussie FS-DE 2.0L.

My running gear is still running pretty strong, but if it was abused daily, I wouldnt like its chances running for a long time.

Only thing apart from the American Mazdaspeed turbo bits that were installed that we change was the intake plenum with a non butterflied type.

We experience problems with tuning with the factory butterflied plenum:1. unreliable vaccum sources.
2. opening and closing of the butterflys over different 50 dyno runs with 50 different rpm open and close settings and still running out of puff after 4500-5000rpm.
3. excessive pinging due to bad air flow.

have a dyno sheet somewhere, maybe in my build up thread of the best dyno run with original sp20 plenum and after with non butterflied manifold.

After installation with a non butterflied plenum, it immediately resolved all 3 points, it runs out of puff after 6500rpm, managed to run a sh*t load more timing without pinging.
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Old 13-07-2010, 10:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familiagtx View Post
Bring this back from the dead.

From personal experience with converting my white sp20 from non turbo to turbo.
if your chasing 120kw at the wheels and above, you will need to build a tough motor.

it is heavily documented that people with excess on 120kw at the wheels do ruin the bottom end quite easily and in a short time frame.

I currently have 115kw at the wheels with 10psi with a completely standard aussie FS-DE 2.0L.

My running gear is still running pretty strong, but if it was abused daily, I wouldnt like its chances running for a long time.

Only thing apart from the American Mazdaspeed turbo bits that were installed that we change was the intake plenum with a non butterflied type.

We experience problems with tuning with the factory butterflied plenum:1. unreliable vaccum sources.
2. opening and closing of the butterflys over different 50 dyno runs with 50 different rpm open and close settings and still running out of puff after 4500-5000rpm.
3. excessive pinging due to bad air flow.

have a dyno sheet somewhere, maybe in my build up thread of the best dyno run with original sp20 plenum and after with non butterflied manifold.

After installation with a non butterflied plenum, it immediately resolved all 3 points, it runs out of puff after 6500rpm, managed to run a sh*t load more timing without pinging.
120 kW is barely above stock power levels especially which are about 105 kW at the wheels.

The biggest problem you are facing by turbo'ing an SP20 is the compression ratio we have, which is 9.7:1. That is unheard of in the States with any turbo setup, as they will run anything between 9.0:1 (MSP stock compression ratio) down to 8.5:1.

Other restrictive items you might consider changing are the SMIC (to a FMIC) and the stock exhaust to something a bit larger.

Here is a thread were US guys are getting 150kW at the wheels just by adding a few bolt-ons and upping the boost to 10 psi:
http://www.mazdas247.com/forum/showt...hp?t=123776924
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Old 14-07-2010, 08:30 AM   #18
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Im only talking about my own personal experience

my sp20 only got the best of 78kw completely factory thats done 200,000+kms at the wheels across three runs. I have almost doubled the torque before and after and have now have 115kw at the wheels, using 18" wheels

In my own situation, I have got the the car mapped bang on 14.7 to 15.0 AFR on vaccum and running a safe lean 12.5 to 13.0 on boost for maximum fuel economy.

and still get an average of 600km per tank with conservate driving, and close to 500km on a tank driven hard.

---

Personally, I did not want to spend a couple of thousand keeping the car n/a and making it nosier and louder and gain another 10kw plus
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Old 14-07-2010, 04:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familiagtx View Post
Im only talking about my own personal experience

my sp20 only got the best of 78kw completely factory thats done 200,000+kms at the wheels across three runs. I have almost doubled the torque before and after and have now have 115kw at the wheels, using 18" wheels

In my own situation, I have got the the car mapped bang on 14.7 to 15.0 AFR on vaccum and running a safe lean 12.5 to 13.0 on boost for maximum fuel economy.

and still get an average of 600km per tank with conservate driving, and close to 500km on a tank driven hard.

---

Personally, I did not want to spend a couple of thousand keeping the car n/a and making it nosier and louder and gain another 10kw plus

i here u mate...

still witing on the k1 rods and pistons....

but i have everything else pasically.... except a mfactory
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Old 16-07-2010, 11:04 AM   #20
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Here is the best dyno run with the original intake plenum with vics (butterfly) vs. non butterflied

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