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Old 14-01-2010, 07:43 AM   #1
NaughtyGT
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LPG is the way to go if Turboing?

I have just been researching the latest information regarding fuel management when turboing a vehicle. I am amazed but when you read into it, it all makes perfect sence.

Who would have thought the humble LPG would eleviate detonation & eliminate need for an Intercooler

In summary, if you have engine dynotuned to LPG, you will end up with increased power & better protection against heat damage (detonation). Petroleum requies fairly recise parameters when managing fuel rates etc. Because LPG is a cold fuel so to speak & has capacity for greater explosion, in the right application, this is apparently the way to go for te future. Not to mention greater economy. Even if the Gov is going to add excise on LPG soon, it will still rermain far cheaper than petrol.

Do the research further if this interests you.

Your main & indeed only real consideration, is the set up cost. I don't know f Gov is still offering subsidy? If so, this is truely an amazing way to go imo.

I am looking @ a vehicle currently that has had this full set up. Not cheap but, friggin awesome bit of engineering. I merely wanted to pass on this amazing concept that is appearing in forum discussions, even here n OZ, to perhaps give others the opportunity to consider this option.

I may find some links but don't have the time right now sorry. I'm sure if you google the main subject, you'll get positive response

Cheers all!
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Old 14-01-2010, 08:37 AM   #2
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I know of a couple Gemini's in Victoria & Queensland that have an LPG turbo setup, and they can still make power by the bundle!

Take for instance:
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Old 14-01-2010, 11:04 PM   #3
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nothing new really.

It's well known it has good and bad points that being high resistance due to a slightly higher over all octane so it has much detonation resistance.

some of it's bad points are, it's NOT THAT ECONOMICAL. ( don't read into the taxi issue) When you boost on LPG it sucks just as much as petrol. to be totally ohnest I've never heard of anyone call it easy to tune smooth. In termos of transition from no boost to full boost.

So many hidden good and bad points. One thing I have known and learn with LPG cars is LPG on anything below 3.5L or something light require minimal trorque is fine. Anything heavy and with small motor - like van iwth 1.8L or 2.0L is WASTE OF TIME ON GAS.
A ute alloy tray with say a 2.5L or bigger no problem - taxi no problem.

I know guys who LPG Rotors and other turbo engines. even 3.8L VR with twin GT25's.

They work fine. but extra cost is not worth it with over all.

Proof I find is anyone who builds one swears by it until they sell it. They never EVER uild or buy a LPG car.

On that economey stuff. Just remember - LPG is a product of Pedtroleum it's not natural gas.

Anyone who has to ship in LPG to there home knows due to no gas line. it's more then doubled in the last 10 -15 years.

It's all interesting stuff but, if I were you - i'd wait for more of this E85 to become more common. I've seen better results and more felexability too. I know of 1 LS2 running a Vortech and it's got switch and it's knock control linked up. So it can run on 98RON and E85 blend. 55KW difference with the E85 on 17PSI. I don't know the numbers I know it's over 500 at the rear on a dyno in sydney.
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Old 14-01-2010, 11:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcs_sp20 View Post
I know of a couple Gemini's in Victoria & Queensland that have an LPG turbo setup, and they can still make power by the bundle!

Take for instance:
hmm that engine bays look like one i've seen recently... but the turbo is smaller in that pic.
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Old 14-01-2010, 11:48 PM   #5
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Will Dave ever finish that gem of his?
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Old 15-01-2010, 12:13 AM   #6
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hmmmmm............interesting info Rod! Agreed I wouldn't go to trouble of doing the modification myself yet, I am looking @ a beast already modified. It is pretty damn full on. NA application, gas sux. Turboed, I only read into it recently & it sounds very interesting. Maybe needs more reading?
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Old 15-01-2010, 12:38 AM   #7
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lol didnt i say this a last year when i was talking about LPG, and i am pretty sure i got laughed at...
if u go all the way and get DIRECT INJECTION LPG, not a mixer, it is just like fuel injection, it is fairly tunable and it cools the charge of air whn injected (eliminating need for intercooler and cooling the engine itself). also lpg has a ridiculusly high octane rating, like 110 or something but cus its a gas it has a lower energy rating. so if u turbo and inject alot u will be on the same leg as petrol, but it will be cheaper on the weekly wallet..
there is a mob in vic that does direct injection kits and so on, last time i checked it was over 5k just for that setup.
if u go the mixer way (much much cheaper) and conect the reference port to jsut before the mixer ring on the boosted manifold rather than using atmosphere as referance, it is fairly self tuning (SORT OF) and it acts like a carburated (or single point injected) turbo car..
eiter way ur internals will have to work harder to get the same amount of power out of it
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Old 15-01-2010, 09:06 AM   #8
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^^ you bet. I remember well Tony. I just hadn't pieced together it all concerning forced induction. You were right on the button buddy

as i said, NA, you would never do it unless it warranted the mielage as in a taxi. Gas gets only about 75% (maybe even less) mileage as petrol. I have owned 2 cars, both Fords on lpg. Gutless, poor economy but yeah, cheap as on the wallet. I contend as well as others I have read that whether injection or not, LPG will still remain less economical than petrol per litre.

This car I am refering to @ present, has had massive doe thrown @ it & apparently, better than on petrol. Had been tuned to both, for assessment purposes, as it is duel fuel. Then dynoed finally on LPG! From owners point of view, LPG is the way to go with it from what I can gather

Also, to clarify engine working harder on LPG with forced induction. The internals of vehicle I am inrtested in have been forged & even box has been strengthened to take extra internal forces created, prior to full dyno
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Old 15-01-2010, 11:09 AM   #9
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Just cleared up a few things. Seller has set it up with mixer for ease of switching back to Petrol. Hmmm....3L dynoed @ 205rwk on just 8psi. Not terrific but still pretty good I guess.

Thanks Tony for your imput mate This is a new area for me with F-Induction. In your opinion, is using a mixer viable? Personally I don't go for the mixer. As you said, simply would act as a carb
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Old 15-01-2010, 06:34 PM   #10
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That SHEEL Gemini is my bosses nephew, our company did the conversion (before I started working there)
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Old 20-01-2010, 10:20 PM   #11
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the way this six is set up, all it needs is larger gas jets? & it will put out substantial gains. With conservative jets it has installed, it ran 205rwkw on the dyno. Weighing 1450kgs, that's not bad. If I went bigger jets it would really start to show respectible output. Say, 220/230? That would be pretty good through mid-range for this car. Would prolly require another dyno post upgrade? Anyhow, that's disregarding the rest of the car in immaculate condition, paint, interior, low klms travelled. Rebuild recently performed!

Anyway, making a decision tomorrow arvo! I have been studying similar cars & alternative cars on net for days........sore neck & legs to prove it!
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Old 23-01-2010, 07:27 PM   #12
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Here's some sneak pics of the German Blown Six engine bay. It's running a T03 gutted to a T04:



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Old 23-01-2010, 08:51 PM   #13
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Cute little FMIC, it should be quite responsive.
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Old 23-01-2010, 09:00 PM   #14
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FTW.......here it is!













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Old 24-01-2010, 06:41 PM   #15
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Here's a pretty basic explanation of the benefit you can have on LPG conversion if set up correctly:

http://www.v8dualfuel.com/lpg_information/power.html

Here's the differences explained between mixers & injection: (inspired by Tony )

http://www.v8dualfuel.com/lpg_information/mixers.html

I will find a better article on turboing with LPG. I know there are sic cars getting around on LPG, putting out big power but people still remain scepticle I feel due to misunderstanding of the set up?
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Old 24-01-2010, 06:50 PM   #16
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...was that one white originally? Quite different on LPG, and no hassles with the RTA with emissions too
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Old 24-01-2010, 06:55 PM   #17
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...was that one white originally? Quite different on LPG, and no hassles with the RTA with emissions too
exactly Dan, can be looked as a smart alternative if you wanna go balistic where furture is concerned?

White? from speaking with seller, has been red for last 5 years anyway. He's losing alot of $$$$. Been engineered with receipts in NSW so, needs to be assessed here prior to RWC/rego
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Old 24-01-2010, 07:05 PM   #18
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Ah ok if it's ex-NSW then it's not the one i was thinking of. I knew of a white one that was turboed back in 2002-ish in Victoria.
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Old 24-01-2010, 07:17 PM   #19
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Not surprising that when people start talking LPG that tanks don't get a mention.
Yep, the alternative fuel needs a place to live before you use it in your engine and in a smaller car that space is going to cramp your groceries and make weekends away more difficult when find your golf clubs have to go on the roof 'cos the back seat is full of clothes.
Don't get me wrong... If I could buy an LPG powered small car without this handicap it'd be a strong contender.
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Old 24-01-2010, 07:53 PM   #20
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Not surprising that when people start talking LPG that tanks don't get a mention.
Yep, the alternative fuel needs a place to live before you use it in your engine and in a smaller car that space is going to cramp your groceries and make weekends away more difficult when find your golf clubs have to go on the roof 'cos the back seat is full of clothes.
Don't get me wrong... If I could buy an LPG powered small car without this handicap it'd be a strong contender.
definately! You gotta position the tank in the right place.....not easy This is what takes some initiative. I wouldn't bother with LPG on a smaller car anyways imo. Turboed, yes. Stock, well, you could with the right set up but, it has to be well researched/$$$$ spent wisely by someone in the know With Gov' rebate, it was certainly a strong thought in my mind a while back. Repco (Auto Repair Shop) assured me when I approached them concerning converting that by 2008, LPG would be 80cents/litre, apparently as per Howards' public pay-back plan . Well, that never eventuated did it?
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