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Old 24-01-2010, 11:35 PM   #21
70NYD
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u can get a doughnut tank for a little extra, fit it where the spare tyre used to go, get a space saver n chuck it where the petrol tank use to be (on a wheel whinch like for utes n trucks ) space is no issue if u think it thru
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Old 25-01-2010, 06:59 AM   #22
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Cars arriving this morning either @ 9 or 10am Couldn't pass it up @ what I paid for it. Nothing but lost money on cars last year for stupid reasons. Nows my turn for a little back I have to source engineer mob here in Vic & once that's sorted, get a RWC then, book appointment with VicRoads for rego Then I'm organising a nice trip away for a few days. Work has squeezed last bit a energy outta me lately. Then, when work backs off to winter low, really get into finishing the 323 off then, maybe have to sell it. It's either the MX5 or the GT that has to go unfortunately Think it will be the MX5 somehow.

Can't afford to have em' all. Neighbours will think I'm a car yard......eerrrkk!

I'll worry about that later
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Old 06-02-2010, 07:29 PM   #23
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I'm just about convinced that Liquid-Inject System (LPG injection) is the way to go for maximim efficiency & power when considering Forced Induction (turbo, not SC btw)!

LPG Mixer is a joke. Cheap yes but, you have to consider the need/expense/hassle of tuning (repeatedly, as is necessary) & how much for engine build due to ineffiency of mixing air with gas??

Mixer is about 15% less efficient than petrol whilst, LPI can yield:
a) 10% more power
b) 10% more torque
c) 5-20% more economy than petrol!

That's what interests me in the equation. Yes! It is worth the expense if you want power & you are intending on keeping the thing. Full stop!

Here is a more get-to-the-point doc' on LPI: I've found this a good explanation of the 3 different fuel delivering methods:

http://www.lpgli.com/features.html

Now. What I have to decide is whether to put car back to Petrol, keeping in mind that it is mechanical injection, not EFI as with all your Astina's which boils down to the fact that although the Merc has indeed an ECU, it however does little more than manage cold-start. It does not however affect fuel/air mixture so can't be used to manipulate spark/detonation etc. So, where talkng Stand Alone I guess?

As Rod (Rodhog) rightfully attested to. If you wait til' we get E85, you will do well. Granted!

But, if LGI is more economical, then Rod, your mistaken on this one! If true, it is worthwhile to go LPI!!!! However, to be fair, if it is the initial expense of set up. Then, OK, I agree Rod! But economically, I have to disagree. Tune up? it should be as reliable/pain-in-the-ass as any EFI system. True? EFI also negates the need for duel-fuel, whereby you start on petrol then, switch to LPG in order to elleviate time to start engine as well as more importantly, to avoid dangerous back-fire that occurs with vehicles running straight gas with a mixer!

All good in learning folks. I so happen to be needing to learn this. Not my mates car but, mine! I have the wreck to now fix after all hey!

Top marks to Tony. You can't benefit from an LPG Mixer set up (look @ my engine) when going FI!!!!!!!!!! I don't give a stuff what the would-be's can tell you. I'm about to spend ****loads to "unnecessarily" rebuild this engine due to some uneducated, unlearned fool that has raped this donk & partied with a country phuck butcher (mechanics arse!)! I don't find one part of it ammusing. Only the fact that the car is awesome & worth all the bother to fix the phucker-up.

The mixer cannot concentrate acurate fuel/air mix (AFR) & besides this, stay tuned for long enough ($approx $500 a dyno) to warrant keeping. But, since a stock 3.0L Merc engine can put out 650HP with accurate AFR's, I am willing to see how far I can go?!?

Here are a few other informative articles/doc's with good explanations:

http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/Turbo.html

http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/which_conversion.html

http://www.amershamauto.com/pages/how_lpg_works.htm
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Old 07-02-2010, 09:57 AM   #24
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We just finished a conversion on a Suburu Forrester GT, EJ20 turbo motor on Vapour Injection, has no problems at all under boost. Our workshop we've done turbo BA/BF/Territorys with no problems at all
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:55 PM   #25
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Matty, why didn't customer go full injection & make use of the EFI/ECU?

Do you think maybe it's my inlet manifold that's hopeless? How come 2 of the 6 pots copped excessive heat/detonation. Is it due to the manifold shape?

I aint risking this hapening again after rebuilding engine this time. I have heard/read that tuning is both difficult & frequent with the mixer feed?

I will be chatting with AirResearch Techy in morning. I am seeking mega HP/Kw's outta this car so, mixer isn't looking too viable @ this point.

What HP/Kw's are we talking with what you have done to the Sooby?
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:13 PM   #26
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We haven't played around with Liquid Injection yet (we also develop our own kits), I wouldn't think the manifold has anything to do with the damage at all, could be corroded/blocked coolant jackets around the bores?

I wouldn't bother with mixer LPG on a high-po car, especially forced inducted engines. Spend the little extra on the injection systems

We didn't dyno the Sooby, but on previous cars (that need to be taken up to Sydney for tuning and EPA passing), there's about 5-10kw difference between the fuels
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:23 PM   #27
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I asked due to you saying you just did a Turbo Subaru. Also, it won't be a little more for LPI since I already have the mixer set up. 5k before I even look @ doing anything else needed

Thanks for advice. Appreciated
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Old 08-02-2010, 05:50 PM   #28
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http://forums.justcommodores.com.au/...ction-lpg.html
thats the link where i 1st heard about direct injection
there is a company in victoria, (melb i think) that does liquid injection kits (ie Direct injection unless i misunderstand this completly )
it was mentioned earlier but.
from what i understand, thos kits come with a ecu that you tune to your desire and it acts jsut like a petrol injector ecu..
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:57 PM   #29
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yeah Tony, the guys I have spoken of do do mthe kits but not for Mercs. By the time you get harness sorted, buy new injectors, all the fitment inc' tank etc, too much $$$$ fopr me. Sure if you have the doe/ray/me. Thing is, I can still make respectible HP with a mixer. It just has to be done right. They are simple to tune. Just need the right set up & your off LPG is not something to leave to cowboys to fit/tune. My engine proves that. You have to build engine according to the HP output/reliabilty you want. It's that simple but crucial!!!

Thanks mate for your input. It's been invaluable & helped me get interested in the whole deal.
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:55 PM   #30
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glad to have helpd
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Old 13-02-2010, 06:00 PM   #31
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Check this lowdown on Chinese Turbos (the ones floating frequently on EBay) disguised as Garretts or T03/T04's

This is from a trusted source I know who tried/tested many:

At the time of writing there are many factories in China manufacturing turbos which are, by and large, identical. One such example is the rather common T70 which is itself a copy of the original Garrett T61. Initially, one factory began churning out copies of the aforementioned turbo at which point another manufacturer decided to follow suit, basing its own product on a copy of the initial copy. This chain of events has eventually led us to the market that exists today one that is cluttered by generic turbos most of which are a far cry from the quality of the original Garret. As a result, the reputation of Chinese replacement parts has been diminished with many buyers steering well clear of anything coming out of the region.
At (TB) we laid down two years of hard work in the form of research before we eventually decided to start selling
Asian hardware. By inspecting and testing turbo models purchased from 30 different manufacturers we eventually narrowed our candidates down to a single copy bearing the closest resemblance to the original Garrett T61 and ensuring via tests that
it measured up to the original performance. During this arduous process we came across both amusing and downright frightening examples of low quality parts despite the near identical physical appearance of many of these impostors.
Below are a few good examples of what we found:

1) Upon heating up, the compressor housingˇng weld came apart right down the middle. The reason? It was glued together.
2) Incorrectly threaded axel. After tightening the nut a few times we lost the boost, which promptly saw the nut fly off into the
wilderness resulting in a turbo mess.
3) Turbo collapse the shaft broke down the middle after a number of mountings.
4) Bearing collapse the bearing was constructed of plastic(!)
5) Strange response from the turbo´s incorrect angle on the wheel blades.
6) Seals breaking almost instantly
7) Erroneous specifications many manufacturers claim 360 bearings/ballbearings but opening the housing reveals otherwise


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Old 16-02-2010, 09:14 AM   #32
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Another tiny article for those boosted & interested in LPG conversion, perhaps up ahead http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/news_details.php?id=68

what I recently looked @ was the higher compression ratio that LPG affords. This transpires to stock engine capability to run decent boost without the heavy concern for lower comp bottom end to save internals. With LPI (liquid inject'), this can be as high as 13:1 comp ratio obtainable! I really believe with more advancement with liquid injection, things could get really interesting. Just my opinion though......
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Old 13-07-2010, 08:09 PM   #33
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just recently purchased another sp20 that dual fuel, petrol & lpg.

No noticeable difference with power loss at all when you switch between the two on the fly on long steep incline.

I'll let you know the results
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Old 13-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #34
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would it happen to be yellow with white wheels?
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Old 14-07-2010, 08:54 AM   #35
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it certainly is.

not a big fan of the yellow, personally did wanted another matching white one or a white/black pair.

but filling up a completely empty gas tank for $24 bucks @ 0.60c was the selling point

a bit of work needs doing, need to change cv's and alternator bearing will need doing in the near future.
and I'll think about raising the car up with some new king springs and shocks or another set of coilovers.

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Old 14-07-2010, 10:12 AM   #36
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it's what you can do when it's got a blow dryer forcing it into some otherwise lame engine that makes me smile haha.....
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Old 14-07-2010, 03:05 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by familiagtx View Post
just recently purchased another sp20 that dual fuel, petrol & lpg.
Spotted that on ebay a week ago, looked like a bargain
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Old 14-07-2010, 10:53 PM   #38
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it was at a good price.

if it was as clean as my white boosted sp20, then it would of been a bargain

needs a bit of money thrown at it to bounce back to life
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Old 24-07-2010, 02:14 PM   #39
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i'll book in to get my recently acquired dual fuel sp20 for a few dyno runs, mainly interested the power difference between lpg and petrol, and wideband a/f ratio on both fuels. i'll post up results
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Old 24-07-2010, 04:22 PM   #40
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will be very interested. Let us know the variables between the 2 also won't you so we know the score
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