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Old 17-01-2011, 12:15 AM   #1
A.E
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SP20 FS-DE converted to FS-ZE

So after my curiosity being sparked on this matter I'd like to know what is needed to turn the DE into a ZE?? Without engine swap. Possible??
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Old 17-01-2011, 12:22 AM   #2
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The difference between the two engines is:

- high compression pistons
- slightly larger cams (i.e. more duration and overlap)
- intake manifold (with plastic plenum on top)
- 4-2-1 exhaust manifold
- ECU (different timing/fuel maps to handle high-compression pistons and also raises the rev limit to 7,200 rpm)
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Old 17-01-2011, 07:57 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orion View Post
The difference between the two engines is:

- high compression pistons
- slightly larger cams (i.e. more duration and overlap)
- intake manifold (with plastic plenum on top)
- 4-2-1 exhaust manifold
- ECU (different timing/fuel maps to handle high-compression pistons and also raises the rev limit to 7,200 rpm)
Camshafts are the same for JDM/AUDM comparison, slightly more overlap. But the MS FS-ZE version does have 241/241 duration cams.

I think also the computer wiring loom is different due to having a few extra JDM goodies added to it.
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Old 17-01-2011, 08:35 AM   #4
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Mmmm so apart from the intake manifold everything else could be done with aftermarket stuff locally I guess.
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Old 17-01-2011, 08:53 AM   #5
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Yeah. High comp pistons and an EMS and you'd net good gains.
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:24 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
I think also the computer wiring loom is different due to having a few extra JDM goodies added to it.
I have not heard of any additional wiring on the FS-ZE before. Any ideas as to what these extra goodies are?
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:32 AM   #7
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I have not heard of any additional wiring on the FS-ZE before. Any ideas as to what these extra goodies are?
fuel maps perhaps?
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:51 AM   #8
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fuel maps perhaps?
Yeah, but that would be all part of the FS-ZE ECU, which you would definitely need (or an aftermarket ECU) to run the higher compression pistons.

I still don't see where any extra wiring would be required
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Old 17-01-2011, 05:05 PM   #9
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I cannot confirm it. I sure though somewhere in the past it has come up. But could be an error on my behalf.
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Old 17-01-2011, 05:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by project.r.racing View Post
I cannot confirm it. I sure though somewhere in the past it has come up. But could be an error on my behalf.
I have read somewhere that the FS-ZE is only OBD 1 but I am unable to confirm or deny it, I will be contacting my cousin in NZ who owns one to check for me.
I can however get a complete FS-ZE shipped to me for less than the cost of an FS-DE here in AUS.
I have been Quoted approx AUD $970 for a FS-ZE + shipping of approx $175.

I am seriously considering getting a FS-ZE as my FP-DE didn't like the drink of water I gave it last week.

If anyone wants a FS-ZE let me know and I will arrange it for you.
There are a few engines available all with about 100,000km on them.
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Old 17-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #11
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I have read somewhere that the FS-ZE is only OBD 1 but I am unable to confirm or deny it, I will be contacting my cousin in NZ who owns one to check for me.
Pretty sure that they are OBD-I.

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Originally Posted by phildough View Post
I can however get a complete FS-ZE shipped to me for less than the cost of an FS-DE here in AUS.
I have been Quoted approx AUD $970 for a FS-ZE + shipping of approx $175.

I am seriously considering getting a FS-ZE as my FP-DE didn't like the drink of water I gave it last week.
Dooooooo it Phil!

It would make a pretty sweet sleeper

Would you need a G-series gearbox as well?
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Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
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Old 17-01-2011, 08:33 PM   #12
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If it's a pre 2000 vehicle it's OBD-1. All cars made after 2000 have to be OBD-2. But I could be wrong on the year.

Oh and I'll keep that in mind if I ever blow my engine :P
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Old 17-01-2011, 09:38 PM   #13
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If it's a pre 2000 vehicle it's OBD-1. All cars made after 2000 have to be OBD-2. But I could be wrong on the year. P
Wrong...its supposed to be 1996.. but my car my car is assembled october 2002 and it is OBD I.
Go figure.???

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Dooooooo it Phil!

It would make a pretty sweet sleeper

Would you need a G-series gearbox as well?
I would love to do the FS-ZE swap but im on a tight budget and there are many things that could go wrong that might end up costing me big $$$.

No one has done it here yet and I dont know what is needed.
(Help/Ideas anyone?)

If the FS-ZE is OBD I it may be a much easier swap than I thought, but I will still need engine, ECU and loom.
I should be able to bolt it up to my F series gearbox as the G series has different splines on the shafts and I would have to swap the hubs or get custom drive shafts made and I CBF doing that as well.
The SP20 and 1.8 use the ??same?? diameter brakes so I shouldn't have to swap them as well.
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Old 17-01-2011, 09:53 PM   #14
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no need to replace hubs. the outer spline on the outer CV joint that goes thru the front wheel bearings are the same.

good news if the brakes are the same. something you don't need to worry about.

Last edited by project.r.racing; 17-01-2011 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phildough View Post
I would love to do the FS-ZE swap but im on a tight budget and there are many things that could go wrong that might end up costing me big $$$.

No one has done it here yet and I dont know what is needed.
(Help/Ideas anyone?)

If the FS-ZE is OBD I it may be a much easier swap than I thought, but I will still need engine, ECU and loom.
I should be able to bolt it up to my F series gearbox as the G series has different splines on the shafts and I would have to swap the hubs or get custom drive shafts made and I CBF doing that as well.
The SP20 and 1.8 use the ??same?? diameter brakes so I shouldn't have to swap them as well.
If you search on Mazdas247.com there are a few threads by a Canadian guy with the screen-name of Focus. He has a couple of FS-ZE engines and goes into a bit of detail about how the ECU's can be wired (he runs them in parallel with the original ECU's).

Apparently, there are some OBD-II FS-ZE engines and ECU's See below:
http://www.themazdaforum.com/showthr...Install/page2?

Physically the engines are almost identical. If you can figure out how you are going to run fuel and spark, then that is half the battle won. Cooling system, intake, exhaust, AC, powersteering etc should all just bolt up naturally.

Oh, and unfortunately SP20 brakes are slightly bigger than the FP-DE brakes
http://www.clubprotege.com/wil/tech/3gspecs.htm

The SP20 is defintely a b@st@rd child of several preceeding Mazda cars
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Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
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Old 17-01-2011, 11:45 PM   #16
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OK seeing as to how the SP20 has bigger brakes could I could get a FS-ZE and put every part of into my block so I keep "my original engine" and have a stroked 1.8 and not have to do the brake upgrade yet?
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Old 18-01-2011, 12:17 AM   #17
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OK seeing as to how the SP20 has bigger brakes could I could get a FS-ZE and put every part of into my block so I keep "my original engine" and have a stroked 1.8 and not have to do the brake upgrade yet?
Apparently, it will raise your compression ratio to 9.7:1 (same as the European delivered FP). Don't think that your engine will be stroked as the FP and FS rods are the same - its the crankshaft that differs between the two.
www.ProtegeFAQ.net

Not sure how your ECU will like the rise in the compression ratio though Perhaps an EDM ECU would sort it out but things may get complicated heading down that path - especially if this is only a temporary situation.
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Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
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Old 18-01-2011, 01:04 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Orion View Post
Apparently, it will raise your compression ratio to 9.7:1 (same as the European delivered FP). Don't think that your engine will be stroked as the FP and FS rods are the same - its the crankshaft that differs between the two.
www.ProtegeFAQ.net

Not sure how your ECU will like the rise in the compression ratio though Perhaps an EDM ECU would sort it out but things may get complicated heading down that path - especially if this is only a temporary situation.
Im going to check the price of an OBD I FS-ZE +ECU+Loom tomorrow, im thinking thats the easiest way for more power.
I figure it would be harder to get the OBD II SP 20 engine into my car than it would a OBD 1 FS-ZE (hopefully just engine + ecu swap)unless I could just use my parts and sensors on a FS-DE.
I need some one in NZ to check the specs on wrecked cars for me.

Too many choices and I really don't know what to do!!
FP-DE FS-DE or a FS-ZE

Last edited by phildough; 18-01-2011 at 01:14 AM.
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Old 18-01-2011, 01:25 AM   #19
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Im going to check the price of an ECU+Loom tomorrow, Could I swap the crank shaft as well?
If I keep my block there is a lot less 'hassle' from the law etc.
You could physically swap the crankshaft from the FS in your FP motor but this would result in your pistons being pushed 1-2mm into the chambers of your head

From my understanding your best bet would be to simply swap the FS-ZE pistons into the FP to up the compression ratio. The only thing I could think of apart from going to an aftermarket ECU or piggyback would be to use an EDM FP ECU (again, not sure how this would go in place of the AUDM FP ECU).

Not sure if this is the one that you need, but it would seem possible to get an EDM FP ECU:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/F27-NEW-Mazda...item230d4a349c
Ouch!

Bit of six-to-one or half-a-dozen-to-the-other. FS-ZE pistons in the FP leaves you not knowing if the tune on the original ECU is up to the task, while dropping an entire FS-ZE engine in means you will likely need the gearbox and complete front end running gear (and 5-stud rear axle upgrade as well ) Tough choice
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Engine: AWR mounts; Twiggy cams; Custom CAI; RR Racing UDP; Mishimoto rad
EMS: Microtech LT-10; J&S Safeguard;
Gearbox: MSP LSD; Fidanza flywheel; 5th gear
Rims/Suspension: MX-5 rims; Tokico Illuminas; Eibach Pro-kit; Progress RSB; AutoExe STB
Exterior: MSP front lip & rear spoiler; Matt V headlights; AutoExe grill; EDM tails
Interior: JVC AVX-77; Autometer gauges; DaveBs; B&M shifter
Projects to come: Engine rebuild

Last edited by Orion; 18-01-2011 at 01:29 AM.
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