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View Poll Results: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN TURBOING THEIR 1.8 BJ 323
I am very interested 14 48.28%
I am sort of interested 3 10.34%
I would be interested but it is a very expensive way to boost the performance of my car 6 20.69%
I would be interested but am concerned about what it might do to engine or gear box 2 6.90%
I would be interested but i think buying a sports car in the first place is a better option 3 10.34%
I would be interested but i dont think the car would be drivable or be as quick as i want it to be 1 3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-11-2004, 07:05 PM   #61
sacah
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I bought my 03 323 over a 04 Lancer VRX because I wanted a car I could play with under the hood, get to know and eventually buid something special out of, I think mazdas have a touch of class not seen in most other cars, so I fully intend to do this car up, give those hungry eyes out there something new to look at...
(-:

Plus I love sneeze makers...

I work with children a couple times a week, was looking after one kid, he was pushing a car, the normal is brooooooooommmmmmm broooooommmmmm, this kid was different, and this is a first.. He went, broooommmmm PSSSST broooommmm, I was on the ground laughting...
Lets be the insperation for the upcoming kids!
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:42 PM   #62
tidy protege
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thats what i want to be, i want to set a trend for the youngen's although still young, in 5 years time i want to see p platers driving 323's not civics, lancers or pulsers.

We have an opportunity to so something really cool and i hope this time next year there is a fleet of turboed 1.8 BJ's.

If we do this united we will save alot of time and money, not too mention as mass movement like this will promote the club and the cars that this club promotes.

Although it seems to have fallen through at this stage, at a later date i would like to get this club and its members in a photoshoot to promote these great cars which we love and to make the other clubs take notice that team Zoom-Zoom have something special to offer.
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Old 03-11-2004, 09:51 PM   #63
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i'm sure there will be quite a few more sp20's being modded in the near future as they are coming down to $20k and a lot of first car buyers are getting them.

i'll still be sticking with NA, but still love the sound of a turbo spooling!
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Old 03-11-2004, 10:53 PM   #64
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twilight, i think its cool that you have gone NA cause when you are finished you will probably have the fastest NA 323 in the world thats something to brag about.

Besides everyone cant go turbo, you arnt but you are sure as hell making up for it when my car is turboed im only hoping for mid 14s and you are almost there NA.

keep me updated im interested with what you are doing and once again congrats on the new edition to your family soon.
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:01 AM   #65
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OK guys,

Tidy and I haven't been totally enthusiastic about the overall lack lustre response to the turbo poll/thread. We've been getting plenty of posts, but it has been the same people, with a few BPT crossover suggestions. So to encourage a few more people to explore the world of turbo and inject some psssst into this thread, we have come up with a new name to turn heads in a stellar salesperson like fashion!
Voila! Welcome to the newly named thread. And no, this is not false advertising, HiBoost have been helpfull in supplying us with info on how and what we will expect from their bolt-on turbo kit. I want to reaquaint people with some of the rough figures that Tidy and I have dug up so far regarding the 1.8 BJ series manual and automatics.

What you can expect from a 1.8 turbo using HiBoost kit:
-200kW(whp) @ 10psi boost (high 13s 1/4 miles claimed);
-180+kW(whp) @ 8psi boost;
-recommend upgraded clutch for manuals;
-recommend forged rods for 200+kW(whp) applications;
-recommend upgraded oil cooler for automatics;
-recommend only 5-7psi for automatics (will manage 200whp, but become unreliable past 8psi based on feedback);
-lots of wheelspin!

OK, that is a brief rundown of what I recall that is relevant for this thread. Note that the 2.0 Motors produce much the same results with 2psi less boost. However the 1.8 is reported to be more reliable at and past 200whp with the ability to rev higher and more willingly. The 1.8 uses a smaller turbo, sorry I don't know what model they use as a comparison I'm afraid.
If I've missed anything, please fill in the blanks, and any people with 2.0 motors, please chip in your thoughts as we are not excluding you from this thread at all! We're puely concentrating on the 1.8 as there are more of them out there... Remember we are trying to build a knowledge base for people who wish to join the intended turbo group buy next year.

Gav.
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Old 04-11-2004, 03:15 AM   #66
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Sorry chicaboo but your going to be gettin the hard end of the stick...

as far as the kits go, your not getting good judements....
i have a good realtionship with juan at hiboost (ie we deal for him) and he has had you on....

with our fuel, our engine etc etc... at 7-8psi you will get around 135-140kw atw

this is alot of power to put down in a front wheeler...
but i point your at one of the cars we have worked on and helped tune... Bora Dincels car...
http://www.astinagt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3358 202kw a 19psi


YOU WILL NOT GET TO 10PSI WITH STOCK INJECTORS AND STANDARD INTERNALS IN AUSTRALIA!...
i cannot stress this nough, you will blow a rod out the bottom and it'll be messy for all involved, i cannot stress thatwe setup our version of hiboosts kit to run on our cars to run on aussie cars... if we could get away with 10psi i would do it as i'm a rev head.... in australia our engines and fule will only just support 8psi and thats with boost retard and optimax....

hence why you don't buy a 200sx from factory putting fown 180kw...

sorry i had to calm this situation... without forged internals 8psi is as far as you can safely go...

both mine and bora's car are nowing running forged internals and alot of other goodies to get us to 20psi... (or over 8psi for that matter) i stress this is bad idea...

anyway now that i have made a point on getting the power figures and limitations of the standard kit we can move on...

140kw is smoking them in 1st and 2nd the whole time when full on the juice off the line... =p so don't think of this as a limitation.... =p

Also as far as durability goes i ran my car on 8psi for the best part of 18months without a hitch...ran like a standard car... just f*7k loads quicker than a standard sp20... so it will do it happily for a long time...

thats what everyone wants performance that i reliable... and thats what our kit gives you

</end semi stress.... =) >

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo
OK guys,

Tidy and I haven't been totally enthusiastic about the overall lack lustre response to the turbo poll/thread. We've been getting plenty of posts, but it has been the same people, with a few BPT crossover suggestions. So to encourage a few more people to explore the world of turbo and inject some psssst into this thread, we have come up with a new name to turn heads in a stellar salesperson like fashion!
Voila! Welcome to the newly named thread. And no, this is not false advertising, HiBoost have been helpfull in supplying us with info on how and what we will expect from their bolt-on turbo kit. I want to reaquaint people with some of the rough figures that Tidy and I have dug up so far regarding the 1.8 BJ series manual and automatics.

What you can expect from a 1.8 turbo using HiBoost kit:
-200kW(whp) @ 10psi boost (high 13s 1/4 miles claimed);
-180+kW(whp) @ 8psi boost;
-recommend upgraded clutch for manuals;
-recommend forged rods for 200+kW(whp) applications;
-recommend upgraded oil cooler for automatics;
-recommend only 5-7psi for automatics (will manage 200whp, but become unreliable past 8psi based on feedback);
-lots of wheelspin!

OK, that is a brief rundown of what I recall that is relevant for this thread. Note that the 2.0 Motors produce much the same results with 2psi less boost. However the 1.8 is reported to be more reliable at and past 200whp with the ability to rev higher and more willingly. The 1.8 uses a smaller turbo, sorry I don't know what model they use as a comparison I'm afraid.
If I've missed anything, please fill in the blanks, and any people with 2.0 motors, please chip in your thoughts as we are not excluding you from this thread at all! We're puely concentrating on the 1.8 as there are more of them out there... Remember we are trying to build a knowledge base for people who wish to join the intended turbo group buy next year.

Gav.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:34 AM   #67
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i'm sure chicaboo was meaning 200kw at the engine = 200whp
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:48 AM   #68
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well not having turbo'd a previous na car i would not know the safe limits of the boost , but i do know that the bp is one of the reliable engines of the world , with not much ever going wrong with them due to the massive over engineering when they were first designed ,reportedly copied of the 1.6 bda ford engine, which they have used to get close to 700hp out of for the turbo versions (thus why cosworth love em) , unfortunately they have a design flaw in the crank keyway in the earlier model engine that was later fixed . Now if i can get 165kw atw with 16psi on a awd car the front wheel drive must get impressive numbers with 10psi and the higher compression only adds to the responce when the turbo is not spooled up (mine is a slug with no turbo) so i recon with the right tuning the na turbo conversion should get close to 140-160kw with a very low boost.
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Old 04-11-2004, 12:25 PM   #69
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Ok here goes a quick run down as too why we can't run much boost in stock trim....

-Fuel
The fuel we get is much worse than the fuel we get in the states... the reason it sounds nice is we use a difference octane rating to them... they use what i have been told is machine octane and we use pump octane...
fuel burns at a different octane that when it is in a stable, non-volatile environment (in the pump)... So it affects us with turbo's in the fact that we need to put more fuel into the mix to stop the engine from detonating, this is done by injecting more fuel but in our case our little stock injectors won't do it. Even if you put a fuel pressure regulator on it and up the pressure you still won't get enough.
Detonation(from running lean) kills engine, specially weak ones like ours, this coupled with the point below makes it hard to run boost.
This is the reason why we can't run as much boost as juan can run in the states and south america

- Compression Ratio
What bpt-4w isn't taking into account is that another MAJOR reason why we can't get the fs-de to run boost well is the compression ratio (how much room there is inside the cylinder when the piston is at the top)
NA engines run a much higher compression ratio because their isn't as much air being pushed inside but with boost thrown into the mix it makes it a very tight sqeeze, so when the fuel and air ignite the explosion isn't very controlled, henace putting more pressure than our rods and pistons are designed to handle(ie they are a higher compression ratio from factory to try and be sporty as an NA car...)

There are more details as to why but it becomes slightly more complicated and this was the best noobie way i could write it so that i think everyone will understand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpt-4w
well not having turbo'd a previous na car i would not know the safe limits of the boost , but i do know that the bp is one of the reliable engines of the world , with not much ever going wrong with them due to the massive over engineering when they were first designed ,reportedly copied of the 1.6 bda ford engine, which they have used to get close to 700hp out of for the turbo versions (thus why cosworth love em) , unfortunately they have a design flaw in the crank keyway in the earlier model engine that was later fixed . Now if i can get 165kw atw with 16psi on a awd car the front wheel drive must get impressive numbers with 10psi and the higher compression only adds to the responce when the turbo is not spooled up (mine is a slug with no turbo) so i recon with the right tuning the na turbo conversion should get close to 140-160kw with a very low boost.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:09 PM   #70
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wiredone man u is a pessamist , if you can turbo a mx5 with a 11:1 compression u can turbo a 323 with a 10-10.5:1 compression, admittedly my car runs a 9:1 compression but my engine is made for up to 25psi of boost . now with a mild boost of about 6 psi there would be no problems for the 323 , i think you will find that the fuel in the states is on the par with ours with unleaded being round 92 and premium being round 98, i don't think they have japanese 100 octane at the pumps though.
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:16 PM   #71
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Well, since most of the fun in this is going to be in the install and playing, 6-7psi is what I was going to run, since that will still give a considerable boost to performance. If at a later date I decide I want more power, I can get forged rods, pistons etc and rework my engine, which does sound like fun, but from a money point, just not buyable )-:

I would be greatly interested in getting someone from SD here in the forum to actually talk to us, see how they feel about 1.8L etc, I like the input your adding wiredone, its great, but as you have said, your not an official employee, I wouldn't mind hearing how comfitable the SD team are with 1.8L etc...
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:40 PM   #72
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I'll have a few words with pete and see what he has to say about it...

as far as it goes bpt-4w i'm not a pessimist but i'm sure that i along with everyone else wants to keep there car running, and more than 8psi won't cut it with our fs-de. You CAN turbo anything but you start to lose power once you start removing timing to compensate for detonation in a high compression engine. 140kw is still basically double what the put to the ground from factory so i see it as a big leep.

I run 8.5:1 forged internals and can push the little beasty between 24-30psi depending on certain conditions.(need more cooling) but lesser mortals unlike us with lower compression cannot go this far. I tried and tried to push it harder when we were first setting the kit up over here but it just wasn't SAFE...

And the reason i was pointing out that our fuel is different is because hiboost can push 10psi through there cars because they have better fuel in the US... any talk with a racing fuel specialist will tell you they're 89 octane is our 96ron they're 91 equals our 100... just the quality is different...


end call...
8psi = happy astina/protege owner
>8psi = silly/unhappy astina/protege owner (or happy astina/protege owner running avgas...=p)
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:40 PM   #73
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if i was you sacah i would go to apc next time you are anywhere near the gold coast and give them a talking to , unfortunately there is not many kits in oz , or that many for the 1.8 for that matter unless you own a mx5, you could do something similar to what has been done here on wiredone's car http://www.streetdreams.com.au/galle...cat=SP20+Turbo and get the mx5 kit from one of the many and make the rest of the piping to route the inlet in from over and round the tappet cover. but i think the better one would be to see a professional shop and let them make all the decissions and then let them do the warranty on the equipement, i must warn you that custom make equipement usually cost a fortune so be prepared for a shock (4-6 grand) on a turbo kit but from there on it is a little easier for prices till you have to do up the engine , i got mine done at bryants engineering at archerfield and with just a set of pistons (melted the old ones , being stupid at willowbank) a balance a few mods for reliability and it cost me 3.5 grand and i had all the heavy duty bits already so say 6 grand for a decent turbo engine, then there is all the bits attached , like fuel pump $400, hd clutch kit $500 , injectors $150 each , computer $2000 dollars fitted, and various bits $1000 so it will be a very expensive mod for a na car.

or just get a $2000 dollar jap front cut install it and a decent pump with the jap computer drive in and drive away at rolin import on the gold coast for about $3000 +$1000 for emergency bits just in case .
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Old 04-11-2004, 01:43 PM   #74
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p.s wiredone he is talking about a bp not the fs

oh yeah have a look at this
http://motormouth.com.au/newsletters/1103.htm
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:03 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo
Tidy and I haven't been totally enthusiastic about the overall lack lustre response to the turbo poll/thread.
Well, I guess its time I responded. I would love to turbo my 1.8l Astina, its a BG not a BJ, but as this point in time I don't have the money.

There doesn't seem to be a huge following for the Mazda 323, which means that there won't be a lot of (young?) people with the desire to turbo these cars. And not everyone who wants to turbo their car will have the money to do so right now, or next year.

I hope there are enough people to start a group buy for the turbo kit, but I think if anyone wants a sneezy car will have to do so individually.

Don't let a lack of responses from others stop u from doing what u want to do. And remember, for everyone that does do up an Astina(or Protege) it will mean one more car that people will see drive past where they go "wow". And hopefully they will buy a 323 with the intent to do it up. Cause they are nice cars, and a little different... I think people are getting sick of all the nissans, subarus, hondas & mitzis (nahhhhhhhh probably not).. OK but at least we can have some mazdas representing aiight.

So everyone zoom zoom, pssshhhht. :lol:
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:15 PM   #76
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i think he has the same head as i'm swapping to on the gtr , if so give this man a call " gary stewart on 0732793601 he is in brisbane and a mechanical engineer by trade and runs his own buisness that specialises in mx5 performance and other cars he can help you with na or turbo conversion.
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Old 04-11-2004, 02:57 PM   #77
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Thanks bpt-4w, I have looked at going down the custom road, there are turbo shops up here that do a fantastic job, but if people were to go down the GB path, I would do that also, 1 we should be able to get it cheaper, 2 I have shops up here that will fit it and tune it if I run into any troubles, but if the GB never happens, I will get a custom job done, not a bolt on kit...
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Old 04-11-2004, 04:15 PM   #78
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just to clear up the subject what car exactly do you have.
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Old 04-11-2004, 05:23 PM   #79
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1.8L 323 Protege 2003 Manual
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:15 PM   #80
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Hi Peoples,

Well speaking from my own experience of turboing my 1.8L Bj it hasnt been a quick project ,it has taken a bit of time and is still not 100% complete.. However I would definatly say it was worth it as I am very happy with the power gains and the extra torque. My car was dynoed at 125Kw atw running 6psi on stock internals. Im using a unichip but i would recommend a full complete computer upgrade as i have had a few troubles with getting my unichip right. Anyone thinking of getting there astina turboed should realise that it is an expensive exercise but i would say it is worth it. I had a custom turbo kit made by a guy in Brisbane who did a prett good job. He dealt with alot of kits for the lasers so it was quite easy for him to make something up. The only problem was he took a looooooooooooooonngg time to get the job finish but that was coz he was a bit of a lazy type that needed to be pushed along. If anyone wants to know anymore just let me know ill b happy to help out.

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