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View Poll Results: HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN TURBOING THEIR 1.8 BJ 323
I am very interested 14 48.28%
I am sort of interested 3 10.34%
I would be interested but it is a very expensive way to boost the performance of my car 6 20.69%
I would be interested but am concerned about what it might do to engine or gear box 2 6.90%
I would be interested but i think buying a sports car in the first place is a better option 3 10.34%
I would be interested but i dont think the car would be drivable or be as quick as i want it to be 1 3.45%
Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-11-2004, 08:20 PM   #81
chicaboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredone
Sorry chicaboo but your going to be gettin the hard end of the stick...
as far as the kits go, your not getting good judements....
i have a good realtionship with juan at hiboost (ie we deal for him) and he has had you on....
with our fuel, our engine etc etc... at 7-8psi you will get around 135-140kw atw
Hi wiredone, thanks for your comments, we really do need input from those who know the local market and it's limitations, so I'm glad you've brought some great information to the table. But yeah Andy is right, I was quoting flywheel(wheel) power figures, sorry if I unwillingly mislead anybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twighlight protege
i'm sure chicaboo was meaning 200kw at the engine = 200whp
Tidy and I are trying to get people interested in this thread, so created a controversial title, that seems to have worked with 110 extra viewings since last night. We are trying to expand our reach to get the sort of great feedback that wiredone offered.
I should also point out that I am not pro HiBoost, it is just easy to get feedback from Juan at HB who supports a large US market and knows THEIR cars really well. But really we need the likes of wiredone to bring us usefull information and create a database of sorts that we can use when deciding on the best turbo kit for the 1.8s and 2.0s for our climate...
Over the coming months there will be alot of time for the car club to expand and broarden our ability to get people interested in appreciating their Astinas and Protegés enough to enable the ambitious turbo group buy.
If I could politely remind people, the BJ series engines are the 1.8 FP and 2.0 FS(DE?) models. For legal reasons BPT frontcuts are not suitable on our vehicles, it is possible that the GTX/R & MX5 turbos could be converted to work. However when there are designed-to-fit bolt-on turbo kits available, I am not sure this would be a course to take...
Most of the people who are absolutely genuine about this thread are indicating to me that they only want to run 7-8psi to begin with as a stepping stone into the turbo world. I am similar myslef but am more limited in my options. Although I don't feel this to be a bad thing and have no gripes running only 5-7psi.
Something else I would like to add is that a few of the members are doing really well to create interest externally of the club to gather mechanics who will no doubt be extremely valueable when it comes time to throw everything together. Thanks guys, I applaud your efforts.
Tidy, Sacah and myself are always looking at new information and are constantly researching so that we can make well informed decisions. However it has been pointed out that we need to do a little bit more local homework before we make the wrong decisions. I'm hoping wiredone can bring this thread to the attention of Street Dreams so that we can have a better shot at it working for us.
I'd like to here from the guys who have decided to go custom and share their experiences with us, PLEASE! (Thanks Anton, your'e a champ). We can all benefit each other by sharing our knowledge here.

Keep the ideas rolling in, and remember what the goal is here.
Gav.

BTW: Don't forget about the little things not in the turbo kit, ie: exhorst, pauter rods, oil coolers, injectors and LSD.
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Old 04-11-2004, 08:35 PM   #82
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Like chicaboo has said i too am not planning to run phenominal boost levels i just want to see my car with about 130-140 kw atw. At this stage thats all that i am chasing as i have other plans for my car apart from turboing it.

I should add that the sort of power this kit can deliver will give us the same power to weight ratios of some seriously powerful cars. Although not quite what we are getting i have seen footage of an american sp20 running a low 12 and beating a boosted evo.

I dont want to be beating evos but it would be good to be even with the likes of an SS Comodore or something, is this posible being a frontwheel drive running about 8psi boost achieving like 135kw atw.

Also im interested in the tourque levels we will be achieving, i just like the idea of doing like 60 in 4th laying the boot in and seeing some serious accelleration. We had an xr6turbo that was cool im hoping to see my little 323 pull nearly as hard.

This may sound like a dumb question BUT HOW DRIVABLE ARE THESE THINGS IN THE WET TURBOED?
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:16 PM   #83
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^ just dont get on boost and you'll be right

good to see so much thought going in to this. i'm impressed
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Old 04-11-2004, 11:36 PM   #84
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Good to hear that people ARE interested in turboing the fsde as i can say from experience i'm not selling my car for at least another 6 months- a year just because i like it too much... i was going to buy a series VIII rx7 at christmas but have now put that off in exchange for more money on the me and pete's (from street dreams) "SP2NV project" =p

i must apologise though as i have read the whole thread again and some of my posts could have very easily been taken in a negative way and that wasn't my intention at all as i was trying to stop people from making a costly decision...

As far as the whole fsde thing goes i can happily say i know the whole car and engine package from the ground up as i have taken been on the front lines doing most of both the physical labour as well as research on my car... (including taking the whole engine apart two times for machine work and a rebuild) if i was going NA i would speak o twilight as he has proven himself to be the man when it comes to NA in sp's. And as the same token i recommend that you ask me anything your not sure of as i would hate for FI in our astina's and protege's to become a black art that everyone is scared of by people blowing things...

Any questions ask away and i'll ask them... i can basically answer anythng you have to ask about the astina's / protege's and if i can't i'll speak to street dreams people, and if they can't answer i'll use the other million connections i seem to have made in the last couple of years modding...

As far as oil coolers, lsd's etc simple answer: not REQUIRED for 5-8psi...
everything should live its course for practically as long as stock at this level except the clutch for which i can get replacement items for any power range (ie i recommend staying away from the ACT 350hp clutches as they slip even at 8psi after abit of harsh treatment... but i can get nice clutches in 350hp, 500hp, and the stage 5 i am currently running which will take up to 750hp)

Hope i can be of assistance
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:37 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiredone
As far as oil coolers, lsd's etc simple answer: not REQUIRED for 5-8psi...
everything should live its course for practically as long as stock at this level except the clutch for which i can get replacement items for any power range (ie i recommend staying away from the ACT 350hp clutches as they slip even at 8psi after abit of harsh treatment... but i can get nice clutches in 350hp, 500hp, and the stage 5 i am currently running which will take up to 750hp)

Hope i can be of assistance
Thats great to hear. So you're saying that with a max of 8psi the only beefed up mod that should be needed would be a clutch? If so with 8psi being the aim what clutch(es) should we be looking at?
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:44 PM   #86
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Well as far as beefed up mods go yes, i would only recommend a clutch...
in the first year though i'd invest in a rising rate fuel pressure reg, and maybe some injectors just to make it all allot happier...

I'd also get on into taking care of it better... ie nice light expensive oil changed regularly... simple thinigs like this will make things nicer to drive in the long run...

well the new clutches i have been supplying people with is made by SPEC in the states... i'd get a stage 3 which costs around US$359 which is the same as the ACT basically at the end of the day and holds up to 400ft/lb of torque, has a practically stock pedal feel and is a hybrid puck clutch... SPEC are great and i would recommend them to anyone... my flywheel coems from them and weighs 4lb's and my clutch is a SPEC stage 5 which holds insane amounts of power...all at a decent price... (http://www.specclutch.com/ for more info) i can get them in for you as i have a dealer account with them.. trade price as usual for Astinagt.com members =p

For the FI newbie coming into boost i would recommend highly the first spec i mentioned as it doesn't change the pedal feel very much so you won't be getting both a dead leg and clutch chatter off the line while first using it...
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:37 PM   #87
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4lb fly???? dont you mean 4kg?
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:43 PM   #88
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yes i am corrected... sorry i think in the old ways its around 8.5lb's...
sorry for the confusion

Quote:
Originally Posted by twilightprotege
4lb fly???? dont you mean 4kg?
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:28 PM   #89
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Hi all,

Glad to see Chipa onboard the discussion now. And I love that the NA king is floating around in a turbo thread too! :P

Wiredone: A couple of weeks ago at the big Fordlaser cruise I had some problems going back up the mountains for a short time. Basically after following a large bus up the hills with us all huddled up in 1st or 2nd for a few minutes we all finally got the chance to shoot past it. Not long after, my car wouldn't rev past 4000rpm for almost a minute in 2nd I think? There was no extraordinary noises that I could hear, nor was the engine temperature up. I am worried that high revving 1st and 2nd gear for a while caused an overheated auto and it may have been slipping. But since I have no knowledge on slipping autos I cannot say for sure it was this or a confused ECU from me working the ratios? When an auto slips does the engine rev out of control or does the torque convertor stop working effetively enough to drive as described? And no I didn't accidently push the HOLD button on the shifter...

This is the second time I've had an auto hiccup, the first was months ago the day after a service. That time it LOCKED in 3rd gear for a VERY long time on the highway. Finally I worked out that if I revved it hard enough it would change up. So when I got the chance I gave it some stick and it finally shifted into 4th an resumed to drive normally with downshifts and everything... Hmmm, it has held gears in cold weather for a while before, but not like it did this time.

In anycase, these two incidents have worried me enough to listen to suggestions of transmission oil coolers now. Not drifting off topic, but with 2X the stock power this sort thing could only be worse.

Any ideas?
Gav.
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Old 06-11-2004, 02:40 AM   #90
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Although this post should probably be asked in another thread it could be a number of things...

but one thing that concerns me is that you are thinking of going turbo with your auto... there has been alot of debate about it over the last year with people blowing them left right and center
i refer to http://www.msprotege.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33154
i think that quite abit of research would be worth it in the long run as you could be making some costly mistakes that would be fixed straight up in the turbo path while fitting etc...

As we have never fitted the street dreams kit to an auto i couldn't give you any feedback on it... we could however work closely with you and use you as a test guinea pig....

i would look around for people who have tried and failed and find out why so before i'd strap the kit on...



Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo
Hi all,

Glad to see Chipa onboard the discussion now. And I love that the NA king is floating around in a turbo thread too! :P

Wiredone: A couple of weeks ago at the big Fordlaser cruise I had some problems going back up the mountains for a short time. Basically after following a large bus up the hills with us all huddled up in 1st or 2nd for a few minutes we all finally got the chance to shoot past it. Not long after, my car wouldn't rev past 4000rpm for almost a minute in 2nd I think? There was no extraordinary noises that I could hear, nor was the engine temperature up. I am worried that high revving 1st and 2nd gear for a while caused an overheated auto and it may have been slipping. But since I have no knowledge on slipping autos I cannot say for sure it was this or a confused ECU from me working the ratios? When an auto slips does the engine rev out of control or does the torque convertor stop working effetively enough to drive as described? And no I didn't accidently push the HOLD button on the shifter...

This is the second time I've had an auto hiccup, the first was months ago the day after a service. That time it LOCKED in 3rd gear for a VERY long time on the highway. Finally I worked out that if I revved it hard enough it would change up. So when I got the chance I gave it some stick and it finally shifted into 4th an resumed to drive normally with downshifts and everything... Hmmm, it has held gears in cold weather for a while before, but not like it did this time.

In anycase, these two incidents have worried me enough to listen to suggestions of transmission oil coolers now. Not drifting off topic, but with 2X the stock power this sort thing could only be worse.

Any ideas?
Gav.
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Old 06-11-2004, 09:25 AM   #91
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Hi wiredone,

Sorry for the rant, but since it is of consequence to the turbo power such as a clutch, I thought it worth mentioning. Since Tidy and myself started this thread I'm sure the boss won't mind.
Actually is there anywhere in Aus that can do upgraded torque convertors without a rediculous stall on them? I've read that the TC in the auto is hard plastic (presumably to keep the weight down?). When the auto dies, what actually fails, TC, stripped gears?

Gav.

EDIT: I have found the following parts from Lentech http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4f27eproducts.html

valve bodies - $329usd (price is going up soon)
OEM style lockup convertor - $349usd (is it worth it?)
lockup convertor with aluminum stator - $589usd
overhaul kit with new pistons - $438usd (this plus valve bodies should be good for 175whp)
transmission oil cooler - $88usd

These are the parts I think will be at risk, so I sent an email to Lentech asking what is adequate for 150-160whp.
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Old 06-11-2004, 02:44 PM   #92
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To be dead serious with you chicaboo, i think its a bad idea...

For the money you would spend to get the auto to take double the power its designed for PLUS labour (which is still only around 8psi, and you'll get bored of 8psi quickly trust me) you should just do a manual conversion...
in a manual if the clutch can't hack it its cheap and efficient to just get a new one with a stronger pressure plate...

for the prices listed you could do such a conversion pretty easily...
unless you simply have money to burn and HAVE to be the first to do major work on an auto astina in aus i don't recommend the path your taking, as your already playing round with the way the whole car operates (handling, brakes, gearbox, axles, cv's) by turboing the car, so adding a serious auto build to the list will make the car a non-driver for quite some time till you have everything working right...

The whoe advantage of using the streetdreams kit is your turbo'd happily very very quickly, just look at anton, he says it himself that the car was off the road for some time getting everything right. Playing serious games with the box will make it an even longer mission. One with many perils, expenses and harsh lessons along the way. It is the way of pioneering, trust me i know first hand the pain....

But at the same token i DO think it would be cool to take to the drag strip with a stall'ey and launch like a VL.... but you must understand the work involved to get everything there and whether your commited enough, have the cash and don't mind losing the car for a currently un-determined amount of time...

Just some thinks to think about

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicaboo
Hi wiredone,

Sorry for the rant, but since it is of consequence to the turbo power such as a clutch, I thought it worth mentioning. Since Tidy and myself started this thread I'm sure the boss won't mind.
Actually is there anywhere in Aus that can do upgraded torque convertors without a rediculous stall on them? I've read that the TC in the auto is hard plastic (presumably to keep the weight down?). When the auto dies, what actually fails, TC, stripped gears?

Gav.

EDIT: I have found the following parts from Lentech http://www.lentechautomatics.com/4f27eproducts.html

valve bodies - $329usd (price is going up soon)
OEM style lockup convertor - $349usd (is it worth it?)
lockup convertor with aluminum stator - $589usd
overhaul kit with new pistons - $438usd (this plus valve bodies should be good for 175whp)
transmission oil cooler - $88usd

These are the parts I think will be at risk, so I sent an email to Lentech asking what is adequate for 150-160whp.
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Old 06-11-2004, 11:42 PM   #93
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Alright guys, first of all the name is danny...i have been viewing this site for a good 3 months or so now i'm not the most intellectual when it comes to modding cars, but I do know one thing....i really wanna turbo my 1.8L 1999 BJ Astina. So i've been viewing this thread and am interested in joining the group buy if that's kool with you guys. I have a couple doubts though
- I have close to 120 000 k's on my car...is this too much k's
it's been well maintained but wondering if it's too large
- want to know if the group is leaning towards the the HB Kit or the SD kit
would prefer the SD kit as it would basically be the same price without the worry of shipping and extra customs cost etc. Also asked my mechanic and he would choose the aust. made product as american cars run off a cleaner fuel than ours.

So keep me posted if anyone wants my email it's woggystylez@aol.com
Look forward to being part of the 1.8 litre astina turboing crew
Cheers, L8tr :lol:
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Old 06-11-2004, 11:52 PM   #94
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Hey mate, join the club (-;
Well, keep reading this thread, and posting as you see fit, we are still going through the motions and finding which product is the best for our needs...
Your other questions will be answered by inteligent people shortly
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Old 07-11-2004, 02:07 AM   #95
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Welcome Danny and hi all,

Personally I would prefer the Street Dreams kit, since they are local and have adapted the HiBoost design for the Australian market. But there are many things to consider here, the largest of which is cost.
Although this kit's price may be influenced by many factors outside the control of it's distributors, they are really going to have to seriously think about going a long way south of $8500 for the kit if they want the group buy. This is not me/us wanting to sqeeze them for all they are worth, it is just a plain fact that people will go for a $5,000 custom job when faced against a $10,000 turbo kit proposition by the time they have it installed with exhaust and clutch... Not everyone has a big budget nor necessarily wishes to be pioneers here, we are just trying to make it happen affordably. I would like to see us using a tried and proven formula with no surprises.
At a guess (and only a guess) it seems that Street Dreams have done very few of these kits locally, and now is there big chance to gear up for a massive publicity boost by snearing hopefully 5+ kits in one hit. I can't garuantee how many people would be involved, that is the purpose of this thread, to build interest and make this a reality. If SD have made more sales than I suspect, that is even better. I am just trying to point out the positive direction of such an undertaking by them if they want to get involved. Some people are thinking AutoSalon and magazines writeups here...
As one of the guys pushing for this to happen I encourage people to have their own thoughts and opinions on what they want out of this deal for themselves. Please bare in mind there are going to be mechanical limitations on how far you can go depending on what equipment you have, as have some been pointed out already. I don't think most of us have unrealistic expectations.
I currently have some 90whp at the moment and am not chasing anymore than 150-160whp @ 5-7psi myself. This may not even be possible, so trust me that careful consideration is being made on my part.
Now that I have tried to clear up a few of the political issues that are important for us now, also keep in mind we haven't even begin to touch on the subjects of braking, under bonnet heat and insurance. These could be perhaps briefly touched on, or better dealt with in their own threads if it is warranted. We will cross that bridge when the time comes...

Please read what I have said a couple of times over before posting replies, I've noticed some people skip over some of the more important syntax at times... :wink:
Gav.
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Old 07-11-2004, 03:38 AM   #96
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I do not want to knock Street Dreams in any way I think their
workmanship speaks for itself and their intelectual property in the
haltek maps should be paid for but I think you guys should be
looking local for you parts. At roughly 10K fitted for the low boost 8psi
"High Boost" kit I would have thought somebody in the last 7 pages
would have at least attempted to see what local could supply. A
haltek at $1600rrp, a VF23 at $1400, and using Jynx's Manifold, Dump
and I/C pipes as I/C as an example of decent products, $900 + $750
+ $900 + $400 = $3k + $3k or $6k which gives a fair bit of cream
for Dynoing for Oz fuel, hoses, clamps, fuel regs, clutches etc etc and
doesn't even take into account any bulk buy discounts with eg Dyno's.

What prompted me to make a post was 7 pages of USA this, USA that.
I get economies of scale I know where the best place for pistons is and
I get the advantage of off the shelf I just think cover all ideas before
making a decision and if the americans were really good at stuff they
would play games other countries played to know who's best.

Mal
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Old 07-11-2004, 11:54 AM   #97
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Hi BigMal,

Sorry if we (and particulary me) seem to be making reference to US performance all the time, it is just easy draw information from the single largest source available, and with hundreds of these kits sold in the US for their local market (and abroard) for the 2.0 and 1.8 it is too easy to play it safe and take a leaf out of their book. If it's possible to throw together a template turbo kit that suits a group buy then I am all for it, even if atleast as a point for comparison.
Actaully Street Dreams don't have any maps readily available for the 1.8, so we have a lot of options there that I bother won't to go into...
If Jynx can bring some ideas to the table - that would be most helpful, unfortunately most of us are turbo noobs and this will be our forray into them. So careful guidance is what we would need if we decide to go custom if we can't get bolt-on kits for a reasonable price.
At this stage we area a long way off making any firm decisions, and noone has approached us with any offers or interest for our project at this time. So people with mechanical connections please feel free to your hearts content to chase down any avenue possible to get what's needed for a turbo...

Damn, how about that rain?
Gav.
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Old 07-11-2004, 12:43 PM   #98
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hey all...thanks for the welcome
well first and foremost I'm not even going to consider buying the kit if SD aren't willing to bump the price down substantially. That i am guessing is the whole purpose of this group buy. So if we can see the kit each at 6 - 7 large than that's something to about.
No one has really answered my question as to the amount of kilometres I have...I would really like to hear some feedback on this if possible..
As anyone talked to the SD crew lately see if they are going to make a template for the 1.8 litre, and if our group buy has at all persuaded them??
Big Mal has got a good point and considering there are a few people interested from Bris-Vegas maybe we may find a better setup that is equal or lower $$$ to the SD kit. Being that SD are in NSW i have some cause for concern on if I need something checked out on the kit I can take it back to the place of installation or purchase and they would most probably look at it for free...but I ain't driving down to wherever SD workshop is to check if it is all running 100%. But don't get me wrong I have nothing against the group buy if we can persuade them at a much lower price and knowing the kit is worth the money performance and quality wise then I'm all in
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Old 07-11-2004, 12:46 PM   #99
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Insurance wise im not sure what i will be doing yet as i am a p plater and im only 18 or 19 when i hope to do the kit. And im estimasting that i wont be seeing any change out of 3500-4000 per year.

Brakewise at this im thinking about going with DBA Rotors and getting the calipers hopefully of something exotic not sure yet, brake pad wise again im not sure what i want to do. Im wanting to have the whole set up done for between 1200 and 1600.

With the heating issues i really have no idea what to do i have seen a vented bonnet on the JET SPEED site which funnily enough is on WIREDONES car. However i just dont know if i want that look and there is the issue of water getting in to the engine bay. Is this turbo application going to provide enough heat to cause concern.

Another thing i know it is different from State to State but what are the legalities of making an application such as this to our cars. I know you have to get certificates but i dont fully understand how it all works. I dont want to get pulled over and have my car towed.
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Old 07-11-2004, 01:15 PM   #100
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Sydney, AUS
Car: SP20 BJII Hatch
Posts: 446
Hi All,

I know this is the place for the 1.8s but I have a SP20 and I will be doing my conversion in Feb at this stage. I think I am going down the Custom path since I have some parts available to me at a fraction of the real cost. So I wish to take advantage of that while I can.

I am in the same boat as a lot of you guys, got the ideas, got the will but lack the tech background.

With the brakes, I am getting custom setup done. Same place as critter did his. His ones look damn sweet, but he has only done the front, I want to get them all redone. Not sure about the cost, but the fronts will 330mm rotors. (gotta try and fill the 19"s)

Critter's example:


Will keep you guys posted on whatever happens.

Btw, my car is a manual, Blue SP20, with 42k on it, bought in June 03 i think.
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