Toyota 86 and Subaru BRZ Thread

[Ice88]

Originally Posted by phildough

Thanks Kris, I'm in the 35-35 age bracket and I would love a 86.
But for the moment my car will suffice.

Sorry phil.

But i meant with that level of income. I just forgot to add that :/

[Clean_Cookie]

I was browsing on whirlpool on the.finance section and was blown away with some people's reported salaries! It was a income vs mortgage repayments percentage on loan size. One dude had a 1.4 million loan and only 5% of his wage each week was used to repay whereas moat seemed around 25-30% on loans a quarter of that size. Anyway, I agree this car would be an awesome p plater rich boys car for $25-30k way cheaper than an rx8 was too. But it won't be nice enough to match Audi, etc mid priced luxury sports.....

[z100]

Originally Posted by Cosmo Dude

I'm also in the target market. For me an NA 2 litre two door sports car it would want to be in the low $30k area for a boy racer, turbo 2 litre of the same in the high $30k. It will be spoilt trying to compromise between being a sports car and luxury.

From memory, the s15 silvia (200sx) in spec S guise came in at just under 40k brand new. This car needs to be low 30's to be viable, keep it in that range and it will do ok. For comparison, a brand new MY12 mx-5 is 50k+.

[70NYD]

MX-5 really is a convertible roadster, and the closest thing on the ozzy market to compete with it is the z3/4 BMW, so they can charge whatever they want to. Doesn't mean that the mx5 is actually worth 50k either..

[z100]

Leaked US prices for the Scion FRS: MT $24,200 & AT $25,300.

Pricing is to be announced to the public thursday 22nd March(US).

I'm still expecting low 30's for the base GT-86 in OZ.

[Clean_Cookie]

That pricepoint would probably sell here...dunno what happens when it shoots 10k more though!

[z100]

Originally Posted by Clean_Cookie

That pricepoint would probably sell here...dunno what happens when it shoots 10k more though!

I hope i'm wrong! Just expect the worst and maybe be surprised?

[Cosmo Dude]

I wouldn't expect it to go for much under $40K and no access to the base model in Aus. Remember Toyota has to carry spares for the life of the product plus a few years and I wouldn't expect it to fly out the door being a coupe.

[70NYD]

at the right price it would literaly fly out the door
overpriced it will rott

[rodhog]

Can any of you Name it's direct competition ? 370? maybe Rx-8 ? it's almost gone
dont' worry about performance think of Coupe - FWD or RWD. If you put it into the up 60K Plus you look into BMW -Merc all the small sedan coupes.
Australia is not a massive market

In the US it has direct competition with even Hyundai. But because we are RHD. Low Volume by comparrison, I can't see it ever being cheap.

Because we have so many minor things that need to be address for compliance. It makes importing a mass model more expensive but not in all cases- Take note Mazda imported the GE Mx-6 first into Australia even before Japan. Mazda had to give it it's OWN wiriing loom to meet ADR rules for ABS.
But it makes it harder for them to justify a wide range of models and so they normally drop off base and some middle ground models.
But they also drop off items I think should be left - like rear wipers and upgrade headlamps etc.
I expect $38K base and $48 top. Plus on road extras

[z100]

Originally Posted by rodhog

I expect $38K base and $48 top. Plus on road extras

I don't think it will be that high, those prices you quote will be for the BRZ. I'm picking low 30's for base 86. I agree with Tony, the 86 will die a slow death if it's pushin 50k!

[rodhog]

Originally Posted by z100

I don't think it will be that high, those prices you quote will be for the BRZ. I'm picking low 30's for base 86. I agree with Tony, the 86 will die a slow death if it's pushin 50k!

I would have thought so too but I look at the Golf GTI- and R32. Ever little wanker who is salesman on commision like real estate agents or anyone who can put it on a lease. HAS ONE IN SYDNEY. Majority of Golf or other Hi -spec Euro or Jap car in the Mid 40+ range is on lease and it's where most sales are.
The S15 200Sx was same package leased cars. Soon as most of younger crowd get the money get onto Green P-plates or off P-plates they get the dream car.

That's who will buy them. In the late 80's the Honda prelude - Mazda Mx-6 toyota celica all these sedan coupes were known as excecutive car -park cars.
By late 90's they moved to BMW 3 -series - Z3 Audi A4.
It went from with inflation - from a $35K car to a $60k+ car Now It's even a bit higher up 80k+ ( Let me note the lease car for the Executive - I mean it's just TAX loop hole unlike your Real estate child agent who looses out on it employer wins)

but I won't buy one if it's that cheap. They still need to have little bit of a push up.

[70NYD]

Originally Posted by rodhog

I would have thought so too but I look at the Golf GTI- and R32. Ever little wanker who is salesman on commision like real estate agents or anyone who can put it on a lease. HAS ONE IN SYDNEY. Majority of Golf or other Hi -spec Euro or Jap car in the Mid 40+ range is on lease and it's where most sales are.
The S15 200Sx was same package leased cars. Soon as most of younger crowd get the money get onto Green P-plates or off P-plates they get the dream car.

That's who will buy them. In the late 80's the Honda prelude - Mazda Mx-6 toyota celica all these sedan coupes were known as excecutive car -park cars.
By late 90's they moved to BMW 3 -series - Z3 Audi A4.
It went from with inflation - from a $35K car to a $60k+ car Now It's even a bit higher up 80k+ ( Let me note the lease car for the Executive - I mean it's just TAX loop hole unlike your Real estate child agent who looses out on it employer wins)

but I won't buy one if it's that cheap. They still need to have little bit of a push up.

So you are Saying that if the car is priced as it should be rather than overpriced, you won't buy one? You are saying that you would rather pay for a overpriced item?

[z100]

Originally Posted by rodhog

I would have thought so too but I look at the Golf GTI- and R32. Ever little wanker who is salesman on commision like real estate agents or anyone who can put it on a lease. HAS ONE IN SYDNEY. Majority of Golf or other Hi -spec Euro or Jap car in the Mid 40+ range is on lease and it's where most sales are.
The S15 200Sx was same package leased cars. Soon as most of younger crowd get the money get onto Green P-plates or off P-plates they get the dream car.

That's who will buy them. In the late 80's the Honda prelude - Mazda Mx-6 toyota celica all these sedan coupes were known as excecutive car -park cars.
By late 90's they moved to BMW 3 -series - Z3 Audi A4.
It went from with inflation - from a $35K car to a $60k+ car Now It's even a bit higher up 80k+ ( Let me note the lease car for the Executive - I mean it's just TAX loop hole unlike your Real estate child agent who looses out on it employer wins)

but I won't buy one if it's that cheap. They still need to have little bit of a push up.

I don't think it will need any more power to be quickish car, the focus is on handling and weight. Realistically how much power can you use on the road? Track, different scenario.

And while I understand what you are saying with the lease cars, I fail to see how a car aimed at a different market to cars like the golf gti, megane etc, will sell at that price point. Toyota OZ have it very wrong with the target market (if the leaked internal memo is anything to go by) and are missing a huge opportunity if it is priced in the same bracket as the gti's of the world. Performance figures, interior quality etc will become an issue (despite what I think about the power of this car!) when people cross shop models in my opinion.

[rodhog]

Originally Posted by 70NYD

So you are Saying that if the car is priced as it should be rather than overpriced, you won't buy one? You are saying that you would rather pay for a overpriced item?

No I buy overpriced items after they drop most of there value. Or I buy the best when it's Not going to drop value. Ture I don't buy ****, but I don't spend retail. I know how to get the deal done.

but 7ONYD, my point on that quote is this.
It may not be a problem for You or others but It's well known in Sydney. Like in other places. Top gear is good example - AKA - M3 = a COCK
well in Sydney when 200SX -S15 was released once it got on the 2nd hand market the 1-2 year old cars were known as the NEW LEBO or ethnic westy scum sports CAR. Before that WRX's you could not touch one. I may live in it. I just don't want part of it. I grew up with the Lebanse sports car aka Holden Gemini, Before that it was the Markiville mercedes - Valiant-chargers
I like the fact I can Fit in without too many questions these days.
I personally can't care too much - or should I say I did not care before.
BUT NOW
Today now it's different story. I can't be seen in a some hot-rod car anything with fancy chrome rims or a BOV valve. It's why I have more then one car.
I won't drive out west too often in any thing too flash. Drive a boring basic bomb if I can especially if you have to go new housing comission homes or anything a bit low.
Nor will I drive a car to a dinner to certain parts of town, with a loud Exhaust or bright paint and body kit. Personalized plates etc etc.
A Good example is I used a Plain Calais VY when I entertain Guests and visit Male entertainment places. It might not be as fun as driving a just about anything else but it's what you need to get the job done.
But it won't intmidate buyers at Property Auction - Buying or not. But driving in a SLK convertablie will,
When your young - you can get away with it. As you get older you want to be taken alot more seriously.
Not going to happen in a car Anyone can afford. I'm not saying everyone will jump on board but if you make it too easy. It gets a bad name and it's over.
Think about the headlines - Drifters - toyota 86 - tighter laws on hooons, Dangerous cars on our roads All on tonight ACA -. It won't happen overnight but if they start cheap ? I don't think it will take long.

I think it could still get a bad name regardless of price.
**** loans are still cheap GEN Y and all the rest still spend enough to keep parts of economey going.
So who knows but I doubt it will be cheap. If it does it could have the reverse effect. Like those other cars Got a bad name well it can slow sales especially 2nd hand sales - change the market view. Like buy a WRX now it's not so bad. For a short period it was hard to move them.

Z100 - I mean by push up not in performance but it's IMAGE based on who will buy it.

As for Toyota they know the Target Market - At least here. One thing they will not want the car to be the Hoon Machine. They think alot more about image then you do.
Don't think they can't go too cheap either, they are here to make profit. Fixed price servicing - you have to make up for it.

But if it starts low 30's well I know it's not a car for me, as I'm sure it will have some skimping. Interior will proberly be a bit lower rate. But the thing will not fall apart.

[70NYD]

Aah on I see your point of view now rod, cheers for that, I wasn't thinking like that at all. In my head, image i had was people not crashing it or hooning. Guess that makes me naive haha. The top of the line model will be a little more appointed, but the base model in Japan comes with steelies and I painted bumpers, no stereo etc, basically a clean slate to do as you like. In my head there are lots of these cars moved, lots of aftermarket support. But in reality, scion will move heaps of these, they just announced their price, and while some people are complaining, most are happy (24950 drive away) so they will make lots of aftermarket support. The scion model is slightly less than ours here in terms of what it has

[z100]

Originally Posted by rodhog

Z100 - I mean by push up not in performance but it's IMAGE based on who will buy it.

As for Toyota they know the Target Market - At least here. One thing they will not want the car to be the Hoon Machine. They think alot more about image then you do.
Don't think they can't go too cheap either, they are here to make profit. Fixed price servicing - you have to make up for it.

But if it starts low 30's well I know it's not a car for me, as I'm sure it will have some skimping. Interior will proberly be a bit lower rate. But the thing will not fall apart.

Agree that they will not want it as a hoon car, but with the somewhat low rent interior in the base spec I can't see it being priced near what a spec s 200sx was(although the inside of the s15 that was nothing to rave about). Truth is you will probably be proven correct!
Everyone knows that despite what they sell it for the money is made in servicing not the sale anyway, so sure they will more than cover the costs in OZ.

[chicaboo]

I think you guys are crazy expecting change from $36~37k +ORC for the 86 [add another $2-3k for the BRZ] for the basic model. As Rodney has pointed out, Toyota don't want to sell to P-platers, and realistically they can sell just as many at $45k as they can at $35k, and they're in it to make money.

I wish there was a way to keep P-platers out of this car just so it doesn't get a scumbag image from the undesirables. Unfortunately there is nothing stopping it from getting that image over time... As it is, it's going to be a popo magnet from day dot. But if you expect pricing in the high $20ks or low $30ks, you better be buying a Velocitor or Rio turbo instead.

[z100]

Originally Posted by chicaboo

I wish there was a way to keep P-platers out of this car just so it doesn't get a scumbag image from the undesirables. Unfortunately there is nothing stopping it from getting that image over time...

I just wish it would be priced that low, in reality I wouldn't be surprised at a 40k base.

As for the image thing, unfortunately comes with the territory. I loved the s15 when it frist came out, badly wanted a spec s in blue. Now wouldn't own one for the above reasons. Cop magnet, insurance etc. I will most likely go for the 86/BRZ second hand, maybe a year or two after release. Get one without the new car price. Hopefully the lack of turbo might keep some of the undesirbles out of them.

[chicaboo]

The original AE-86/Sprinter at least had a good 10 years on the streets before being tarnished by Initial-D's hero worship. The new 86/BRZ won't get that luxury, and is going to be idolised by "kids" that weren't even born when the 86 was first released. The fuss about this car is not based on it's heritage but by the mindless fascination grown out of a cartoon...

Nothing is going to stop little rich-boy P-platers from getting this car and crashing it on a Friday night, or the typical in-debt P-plater getting it 3 years down the track and poring tasteless mods into it. The new price tag will help maintain some exclusivity for a little while, at least. But I fear this car will suffer a worse image than the R33 or 180SX, while we struggle to find unmolested examples on the used market in the future.